Electrical In Front Of A Vfd, Between The Vfd And Motor?

If that's what it does, it ain't right. I don't think the VFD would live long under those conditions.

Then its not right because that's exactly what it does. Okay I just spent the last couple of hours reading the instructions on this VFD. Its a Danfoss VLT Microdrive FC 51 2.2 kW 3hp.

Quite interesting, it has a Run Reverse function, I'm still looking to see if it provides inputs to switch forward/reverse remotely via an external switch vs navigating a menu on the control pad. It does support a remote 10k pot for controlling spindle speed. This particular unit comes with a built in pot (they offer a version without the pot). I'm not sure if I can disable the built in pot and wire up a remote pot via the menu, if need be I'll break out my electronics gear and perform surgery. If I can also control the forward/reverse from a remote low voltage/low current switch that will be great, I can get rid of the big ugly China barrel switch.
 
I do pull 4 wire single phase to my machines, so I can pull off 1 leg (before the VFD, after the fuse) for 120V. That being said, I run all my feeds off of 240V, use 120V for the DRO and lights.

Of course 4 wire. I'd have to re-work one of my two 220/30amp circuits and make up a 4 wire cord.

Question though, I never really thought about it but is a 220vac 30amp breaker really 15 amps per side? In other words if either one of the two legs exceeds 15 amps will the breaker trip? The reason I ask is ideally I'd want a 15 amp breaker protecting the 110v stuff, lights, etc. In a 4 wire configuration I'd be using one of the 220vac hots and the neutral to provide 110vac. The question is if something on the 110vac shorts when will the breaker trip, 30 amps or 15 amps?
 
Interestingly, my CO (and I suspect all of their 12Zs) are wired exactly the same way.
 
Hey Bill welcome to the electrical party! In related news I have determined the Hobby Machinist forum is evil...my head is spinning with ways to spend money on this thanks to Jim and the boys. I'm only surprised DZ hasn't arrived to spend some more of my money.

I may fire up my CAD software and give my local CNC punch press shop pals a call next week to make me a pendant enclosure. There is limited space on the left side of the mill head, I have to keep clear of the spindle lock. Plus its in the line of fire of chips and coolant. I don't really want to be drilling holes in the side of it due to oil leaks. Here taking a lesson from CNC mills makes sense, move all that stuff out away from the mill head on a pendant.
 
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Yes, I hear and read all over how not put any switches between the VFD and motor or risk blowing your VFD. Well about 20 years ago I bought an ACE VFD. The manual said nothing about the said warnings so I wired the VFD like it was 240V 3 phase in the shop. I just plug in 3 phase stuff and run it with switches on the raw 3 phase side of the VFD. I tap with instant reverse and everything. The VFD has performed flawlessly since I bought it. I do not know what an error looks like, it has never displayed an error code or smoked…Dave
 
Ok, to be fair to CO here's the procedure used to start the spindle per their startup sheet:

Put the FWD/OFF/REV switch into whatever direction is desired. Then press the VFD's 'hand on' (manual mode) front panel button that activates the panel/applies power to the motor. THEN you turn the pot to what ever your target frequency is. To shut down is the reverse: turn the freq. pot to zero, press the 'off' button on the VFD's front panel and then (optionally) you can then turn the FWD/OFF/REV switch to off.

To be fair, I have forgotten all this and simply reached up for the big red switch and switched it to off while the VFD is in manual mode (which is what I've been doing for over a month now). When I told Paul about this he told me that I wasn't the first one to admit that, and that he has not had any reported VFD failures that may or may not be attributable to disengaging the motor while the VFD is on.

Probably the best solution for all this is to make up a panel that has a fwd/rev switch on it and a pot all wired to the VFD. Or...I could just leave the switch in the fwd position and use the VFD's front panel. Or just not worry about it and see what happens. :)
 
Ok, to be fair to CO here's the procedure used to start the spindle per their startup sheet: Put the FWD/OFF/REV switch into whatever direction is desired. Then press the VFD's 'hand on' (manual mode) front panel button that activates the panel/applies power to the motor. ...

That would work. Except it is a bad business practice on their part to do so. It ignores the manufacturers instructions on installations. It puts an expensive switch in the mix that is switching a fair amount of current. I am very surprised, although CO/IH has always been a small company, and they might not have an electrician on their staff who knows better. The funny thing is it would be easier AND CHEAPER for them to do it the right way.

Like the previous posters said, you use the low voltage contacts on the VFD to tell it what you would like to do. And the computer in the VFD then decides to do what you asked and makes it happen. It is like magic.

Why do it that way rather then use a barrel switch? It will make you motor last longer. It will put less stress on your spindle bearings. It will stress the VFD less. It will eliminate the huge (3-4x running current) starting surge.

The VFD is designed to ramp up and down speeds, rather than instantly try to change them as the barrel switch would do. When you go to reverse the mill, it ramps down, reverses, and ramps back up. Much less stress.

You could use that big honking barrel switch for the low voltage reversal command if you like. I personally would spend $6 for a new switch, that is more compact and fit the controls in a handy pendant attached to the side of the mill head.
 
Interesting. My motor/spindle doesn't 'surge'. It takes (and is programmed to do so) 3 seconds to reach target frequency/speed. So how does the VFD control this when I'm simply switching on the VFD's output?
 
Interesting. My motor/spindle doesn't 'surge'. It takes (and is programmed to do so) 3 seconds to reach target frequency/speed. So how does the VFD control this when I'm simply switching on the VFD's output?
I was imprecise.

I am guessing that CO has wired it up so the on/off switch provides a low voltage signal to tell the VFD to start-up, and the VFD (as you said) is set-up with a 3 sec ramp-up to get to full speed. The VFD also prevents huge surges during motor reversal by controlling ramp-up of voltage and current when it swaps two phases.

If your VFD is always running, and your on/off switch is between the VFD and the motor, than you would see a large current surge when you started the motor (if you had an ammeter on it)... and your VFD would probably generate a fault (excessive Full Load Amps) and shut-down to protect itself.

As long as the VFD is allowed to control it's on/off/reverse cycle on its own, it avoids excessive current surges. The VFD prevents startup surge by ramping up both current and voltage slowly, minimizing the huge differential voltage usually placed across the windings at startup.

Using the barrel switch to switch motor directions with the VFD energized could result in current surges in excess of 5x run current... not good for the transistors in the VFD, as you are exceeding their ratings many-fold, which could lead to early death. Your VFD will probably (again) generate a fault (excessive Full Load Amps) and shut-down to protect itself.

DISCLAIMER: I have never switched the power between a VFD and motor, not wanting to brick a $250 VFD. So it is possible that the VFD won't fault on FLA if you start it that way (maybe there is a time delay). The enemy of transistors is heat; current passing through the transistor generates heat. However, short durations starting surge might not heat it up enough to fry a transistor. I don't know, and I am not curious enough to risk $250 to find out.
 
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The purpose of the VFD is to control the motor. The Danfoss manual is quite straight forward on how to setup the VFD, you can set it up with remote low voltage controls for direction and a 1K ohm pot for speed control. Just remove the current high voltage direction switch, connect a small control wire cable to the low voltage controls, and it will work as it is suppose to. Add an E-stop. There is a provision on the FC51 to remotely mount the complete control panel, so even simpler, just pop it out, get a cable and relocate to the mill head. You have a good VFD and a nice motor, why waste the programmable features of the VFD.

http://www.danfoss.com/NR/rdonlyres...-8B2D62FCEE9E/0/FC51_DesignGuide_MG02K302.pdf
http://www.danfoss.com/NR/rdonlyres...3-1CA240969B4E/0/FC51_QuickGuide_MG02B902.pdf

The recommended fusing for this model is 50A, but 30A may work. You can separately fuse the 120V/240V branch circuit/if you pull power to other devices. This is commonly seen in the control boxes of larger mills/lathes. A dual pole 240V breakers with a single breaker bar, will trip if either side is overloaded.
 
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