Tormach, Tts And Other Tooling Systems?

Are you going to buy the 1100 or the 770?

Kevin

I'm looking at the 1100. I think this machine would better suit my size projects.

Eric

I like the 1100, but I do mostly larger projects in steel. For smaller work or work within it's size limit on aluminum would suit the 770 better. The 10,000 RPM spindle is suited to small carbide end mills in aluminum.

I knew the 770 spindle was faster, but I think the extra travel is probably more beneficial for me. I mostly work in Aluminum and would like the extra speed. But if there's a compromise I'd probably lean toward the extra travel and table real estate.

Tormach has reintroduced the Speeder, a 3:1 step up drive, so you could use that to get up to the 15,000 RPM mark on an 1100, but it doesn't come cheap. It also eats up some vertical real estate, which may be a problem depending on what you are doing. I would like to have one, but until I have a specific need for it, I'm not going to buy it. For me the 1100 was the best choice as well. I have been very happy with the machine, the only problem I have had with it was with the computer, motherboard or video card crapped out. I don't think it was even the original computer.

DMS said:

I did my own conversion, so cost was lower. I figure with everything included (machine, electronics, ballscrews), I am in for about $4k (assuming my time is free of course).

I am using the Tormach ER holders (which have dropped in price since I last purchased). They are great quality for the price. I think I have 6 of them now, as well as a 1/4" drill chuck, a 3/8" set screw holder, and a Superfly.

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What machine did you convert? What kit did you put on it? What software are you using?

I also did my own conversion on an Acer 3VS, bridgeport clone, I used Allen Bradley servos and AB Ultra3000 drives, I bought the screws from Acer, the motor mounts I got off eBay, they were used from a Bridgeport EZ-TRAK machine, I bought the pulleys and belts from Stock Drive, got the board from cnc4pc, I used the C62 board, it's a 24v version that compliments standard plc stuff nicely, for instance the Allen Bradley drives, I use Mach3 control software, it was ALOT of work as nothing was made to work together, I had to make screw extensions, and adapters to make the pulleys fit the motor shafts, and adapters to make the motors fit the motor mounts. I'm into mine for about 3500 including the mill itself. The computer was free. The motor mounts had to be machined also free, I have a good friend who owns a local machine shop. There's a build log on here it's called My Cnc Build I think

Let me add that I'm only 2 axis cnc, I still have to do the 3rd axis.
From everything I have read in the last few years about the TTS it's a great option for quick change tooling, I don't know of a whole lot of other options for the R8, collet chucks are an option but can get pretty pricey having 5-10 collet chucks of a good brand

echesak said:

Howdy folks,

I've been contemplating a Tormach for a couple years. I like the simplicity of the Tormach TTS, but would be interested in hearing from others that maybe have bought similar tooling elsewhere, or have their Tormach (or other CNC) differently. Obviously the referenced Z location is a plus. But I'm wondering about the repeatability of the TTS, since the R8 Chuck retracts into the spindle, when tightened. So it would seem that differing air pressure would cause the collet to pull harder or less hard, affecting the Z-reference. Am I missing something here?

I'd love to get a Haas Mini mill with the Cat40, but I don't think that's in the budget (even a used one).

Any others have a different thought on tooling set-up for small/home CNC's?

Thanks,

Eric

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Go read the Tormach white papers (available on their site). As far as repeatability goes, the TTS indexes on the (ground) spindle face, so it's precise to tenths. TTS doesn't work unless the end of the spindle is a valid reference, so other machines may or may not be able to use TTS (or not without further modification). An E-bay supplier (Yu-sing, or bsello68) has TTS holders available that have been widely tested by the Tormach community and are very popular, at about half the OEM cost. I've got dozens; they mike within a tenth or two, seem to be made from something like 4140 pre-hardened (that is, about Rc 35, machineable but sturdy), fit fine with any quality collet, and hold tools with no problem as long as they're set up to correct torque.

I've standardized on TTS for mill and lathe tailstock; simply won't buy anything that isn't 3/4 straight shank. Great time saver. TTS has its limitations, but for a small machine used within its limits, TTS is a great idea.

After a year and a half of ownership, I've been pretty happy with my Tormach. It's had a few minor problems, but nothing too serious. I love the TTS system and have used mainly the ER20 & 32 collet holders (the latter from Darkon Industries), the Superfly (which I really like), the probe (use it every time I run the machine) and the T/C tapping head (a real time saver). All in all, for my work and personal situation, it's been a perfect fit.

I bought the TTS tooling system when I bought the Tormach. Soon afterwards, I converted my old mill/drill to use it as well. Tormach has a white paper on converting your mill to use the TTS system. It usually involves checking the spindle face to make sure it runs true and if it doesn't, taking a skim cut on the face, using the mill like a lathe. Their 3/4" R8 collet is a standard collet which has been modified by removing the crown on the face which allows the spindle face to engage the reference surface on the TTS tool and adding a second keyway. The second keyway was added to permit balancing the collet to reduce vibration when running at 10k rpm and not necessary for most work. I purchased a name brand collet with a specified low runout and ground the face flat.

The beauty of the TTS system is that it allows you to do tool offsets external to the mill. I use a dial indicator mounted in a dedicated tool holder to set the z axis zero on my work. All the tools are then referenced to the dial indicator. If I need a new tool, I just mount it in a tool holder and measure the offset from my dial indicator and enter it into my tool table. The height gage setup that Tormach sells makes it easy but the operation can be done in a variety of ways.

The biggest issue with the original system was the limitation on maximum tool size to 1/2" shanks. With the addition of the ER32 collet holders, the shank size is increased to 3/4". They sell an ER40 collet set but not collet holder for it. (Coming soon?) The collet/collet chuck design doesn't permit the use of double ended end mills with shanks larger than 3/8". They also add about 2" to the overall tool length which reduces your work envelope by that much.

I have a dozen ER20 collet chucks, a half dozen setscrew end mill holders, five TTS mounted drill chucks, and a boring head setup. I also have a full set of ER20 collets and about a half dozen each in common end mill shanks diameters. This allows me to set up all my tooling offsets for a project before beginning a project. For cases where I have an issue with my work envelope or shank size, I can fall back on my R8 collets and tool holders, although I then have to set up my tool offset as I go.

Bob