Logan/mw 04tlc-701a Purchase

Mike,

OK. That now makes sense. It's the "cable code". Seems to have disappeared from the catalogs sometime between 1952 and 1959.
 
Lots of people have asked about it and done the conversion to an automatic apron with a clutch, iirc, involves some spacing issues, aprons may not be direct

If the lathe has a QCGB but not an automatic apron, then it must be a retrofit and the gearbox mounting surface must have been milled down. Read the following information from Scott Logan:

http://lathe.com/ll-group-archive/adapting_a_qc_gearbox.html

If this is the case, maybe you can add a spacer behind the gearbox in order to accommodate an automatic apron. You'd have to space out the tailstock end leadscrew mount as well.
 
Thanks Jester. From Scott's information my serial #9898 must be a retro-fit particularly since the QCGB is New-All instead of a Logan gear box. I don't know if New-All had the same dimensions as the Logan QCGB. Next task is probably to measure the lead screw location as mentioned in Scott's information and see if it is in the original or a modified location. In the meantime disassembly, cleaning, painting and reassembly keeps going on. At some point it seems like it would be a benefit to have the clutch type apron.
Jerry

Logan comes home 006.JPG
 
Actually, you can add a slip clutch to the lead screw. My Atlas 3996 has one. If your existing apron isn't worn out, that would probably be less expensive and work just as well. And you wouldn't have to concern yourself about the horizontal offset question for both the gearbox and the right leadscrew bearing.

As to whether or not the New-All gear box was modified so that it would mate up with the leadscrew running through the standard apron, I would guess probably not. They made gearboxes to fit a lot of lathes that didn't come from the factory with QCGB's (like the Atlas 10" and 12" made before 1947). If I had been in charge of New-All, I would certainly have questioned whether it made good business sense to compete directly with OEM gear boxes. I don't know a whole lot about non-Atlas lathes but I'm assuming that your particular model Logan wasn't originally available from the factory with a QCGB which produced a niche for New-All.
 
Robert, Thanks for the information.
I have to say at the start I was warned I had something of a "Frankenlathe" and it was likely not 100% Montgomery Ward 04TLC-701A which Logan shows as a 10 inch lathe.
Per your comments, I think Logan may have been similar to Atlas with respect to either not offering a QCGB for the 701 at the time mine was built or it was built without one and adapted later and so a previous owner got the New-All QCGB. I haven't been able to run down much information on either New-All or Western Aircraft Tool Co. but then I'm really a newbie at machine tool research.

Looking in the operators manual and parts book I got from Logan Actuator I see a number of things different from factory. Others have pointed out some and some I've found that don't appear 'stock' on my MW 701 A:
1. Pulleys:The manual only shows 3 pulleys for flat belts but mine definitely has 4 V belt pulleys each on the counter shaft and the main shaft.
2. Brake on spindle: it has some kind of lined brake shoe that acts on a flat wheel next to the smallest pulley. I added a photo of the braking device.
3. 2.25x8 spindle thread: In addition while taking it apart for inspection, cleaning and reassembly I measured the thread on the spindle and it is about 2.25 rather than the 1.5" that the MW 701A apparently came with.
4. I was able to mount a 10 inch 4 jaw chuck that came with the purchase as an extra. It has some, but not much, clearance from the ways. (see photo of mounted 10" chuck) Its very heavy so I didn't leave it there any longer than it took to make a couple of photos. The chuck that was mounted when I bought the lathe was a 6 in. 3-jaw.
5. Casting modified: The backside of the headstock casting seems to have been cut way down to allow for belt travel on the 4 V pulleys. It looks like a flame cut so I'm guessing it wasn't a Logan job (photo). Question is why and how were the headstock innards changed out or modified?
6. Spindle Inner Diameter: The inner diameter of the spindle is a bit over 1 inch after the taper rather than the 25/32 called for in the specs. That's a little over .2" larger. Factory or bored out by user?
7. Bull Gear Pin different? I notice the bull gear pin is described as being pulled out as part of engaging the back gear. I looked and found the pin but noticed there was a small lever next to it that acted to disengage the pin when it was pushed toward the gear. Maybe they were all like this? (see photo of pin and lever) or maybe the bull gear is from an 800 model which Scott Logan mentions as having a lever to actuate the bull gear pin.
8. The different cross slide with two T slots has been mentioned earlier. I did find the factory cross slide in among a couple of old motors (see photo of factory cross slide).
9. Just to review this is the 04TLC-701A tag mounted on the headstock when I bought the machine (photo). I'm guessing that is what it started out as in 1947.

Others who are familiar with Logan may have some logical explanation for these things. This may be 'old hat' to them. For me its a big adventure and a lot of fun learning as I go. Thanks to all who have been generous with their knowledge and nudged me along. I do try to do at least some basic research before I pop up here and ask questions.
Jerry

Logan lathe parts 007.JPG Logan lathe not 701A 005.JPG Logan lathe not 701A 018.JPG Logan lathe not 701A 022.JPG Logan lathe not 701A 008.JPG Logan comes home 004.JPG
 
Update. I spent some time at the Yahoo Logan owners site and got more helpful information about the MW/Logan 701A. The consensus is that the headstock is not Logan. It seems to be a shop-made box of flat metal plate welded together and carefully machined to take bearings and spindle of some unknown brand. It is not a cast piece. So far no one has identified what the spindle and assembly is with 4 V belt pulleys, a different bull gear than Logan and the manual brake device. The gear train for feed seems to be Logan and maybe the back gears as its a Logan rack assembly. Well, it is what it is and I will make the most of it until it either works or doesn't. I'm learning a lot as I go along. A good project to stimulate an old guy's brain.

Last night I got the headstock and bed back up on the table. Saddle and apron are next on the clean up and paint and then all can be mounted. I've yet to figure out the drive hookup with its four corresponding V belt pulleys on the countershaft and just how I'm going to mount it and hang a motor on there. Attached photo is where I left things last night. Looking good but kinda bare.
Jerry

Logan back on table 001.JPG
 
Hi Jerry,

The consensus is that the headstock is not Logan. It seems to be a shop-made box of flat metal plate welded together and carefully machined to take bearings and spindle of some unknown brand. It is not a cast piece.

Looking at your photos I was almost going to suggest that, but I didn't have a good enough view of the entire headstock.

Well, it is what it is and I will make the most of it until it either works or doesn't. I'm learning a lot as I go along. A good project to stimulate an old guy's brain.

Much depends on what you expect out of it. I believe that as long as that headstock was made fairly accurately(axis parallel to bed), then all your efforts will be rewarded with a very usable lathe. Frankenlathe will live again.

-brino
 
A couple of notes. I'm encouraged by the progress and have all the parts back on except the countershaft piece which I photographed in what seemed the most logical position but it seems like its never been mounted to this particular table as nothing really lines up to anything like a mount. Like the headstock and QCGB the countershaft with pulleys looks like it might be shop made. Can anyone identify it as being Logan or any other make? Maybe I have it mocked up in the wrong position?

Also brino, per your comment about the headstock axis parallel to the bed, I don't know if this qualifies as a test but I did mount a couple of dead centers that I believe to be good and put them nose to nose. To my eyes it looked like the points matched. A longer dead center in the chuck might be a more accurate indication as the chuck mounted dead center was only about 3 inches.

Also in the photo of the countershaft mock up, can anyone identify the make of turret tool post? A 3/8 tool inserted in it is a full .25 too high to center on the workpiece and there seems no way to adjust this except shims which would make it worse by raising the tool higher.

Logan alignment and countershaft mount 003.JPG Logan alignment and countershaft mount 041.JPG
 
A red letter day here in the shop. I have finally gotten far enough along to hook up a DC motor and variable speed controls to the MW 701A lathe and turn it on. Motor and controls came from a $30 treadmill I scavenged on local craigs list. It had a nice rotary pot instead of the usual sliding lever to set motor speed. That's a plus for me. Tried to load a short video but could not. Can it be done here or are we restricted to still photos?
Motor is supposed to be 2 hp but I think treadmill motors are over rated in that category. While it was running and segmented HF belts were wearing in I ran the QCGB through its paces. Kind of hesitant at first but it smoothed out the more I moved the shifters around. Lead screw turns fine and on the carriage the half nut engages like its supposed to. Carriage moves forward and reverse depending on gear shift setting and the power crossfeed works with seemingly no issues. What noise there is seems to be coming from the gears on left end of lathe.

I still have to build a box for controls including pot and tachometer, wire in a switch and then on to figuring out what to do about the turret tool post that sits too high to be able to center tools on work piece. I think the custom made cross feed table may be the culprit as its about .15 thicker than the factory cross feed table and that is about the distance I need to be able to lower to be cutting at center height.
A nice end to a good Thanksgiving weekend.
Jerry

First start up of Logan lathe 005.JPG
 
Not sure but the motor mounting and pulley assembly above remind me of a old 9 a or b south bend ,with the belt tensioner handle.
Thanks ron
 
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