[How do I?] Help Me Build My Bogies

You have the tool angles absolutely right except that I screwed up. Back rake should be about 35 degrees and side rake should be about 15-16 degrees instead of the other way around. Aluminum likes a ton of back rake - this will reduce cutting temperatures and cutting forces while focusing most of the cutting forces at the tip of the tool. In essence, you are creating a very positive geometry on this tool and it cuts very, very well. If you have a 3/8" HSS blank that will work better for a machine of your size.

Wow! I'm glad I took the time to post that picture. That's a big difference. So the back rake angle needs to be steeper. I can do that. I just need to know what angles to use. I'd like to grind up some tools that cut really well. So getting the cutting angles right is important. I found in the past that even a really sharp cutting tool that has bad angles won't cut very well.

By the way for the round-nose forming tool you suggested a "Top Angle" of zero. Are you saying that the top of the tool bit should just be left flat and all I need to grind on that is the 18 degree relief angles on the sides and front of the tool bit. I can see where a round-nosed tool bit would be difficult to grind a "back rake" angle on since that angle would be different around the curve of the nose.

I'll have to experiment with that one. I have several blank tool bits to play with so I can try a few different things. I'd like to make a lot of these wheels so I'd like to get this down to a science as best I can. Once I set everything up for making these bogies I hope to make quite a few of them.
 
Robo,

Just curious, but why aluminum for the wheels? This seems like a soft material this use.

Tom
 
Robo,

Just curious, but why aluminum for the wheels? This seems like a soft material this use.

Tom

Hi Tom, unfortunately my best answer to your question is that I'm cheap. Seriously, I'm not well-off financially and so keeping cost down is paramount. I would love to make these wheels from brass, but we're talking significantly greater cost. Also, even if I go with a more expensive material later I'd like to start out with the cheap stuff to make all my mistakes on. I can always switch over to brass or some other metal later if things are going really well.

There is also other important factors that I haven't explained. And I'm almost afraid to explain because I'm sure they will be highly controversial. But just to clarify this project I guess it's best to explain everything. I'll try not to get too bogged down in all of this, but some lengthy explanation is required to best understand what I'm actually doing.

The Long Story Made as Short as Possible:

I was cleaning out my attic and found 5 G-Scale Bachman trains. I bought these trains years ago with the intent to build an outdoor garden railroad in my front yard. I planned out the track layout I would like to have and even started working on preparing the garden for this layout. However, when I went to purchase the outdoor G-scale track the cost was simply formidable. I kept putting off the project year after year until the trains finally ended up in the attic collecting dust and no railroad ever got built. When I found these trains I ask myself, "What do you want to do? Sell them, or build this railroad you've always dreamed of?" And I answered myself, "Dog gone it, I'm going to build this railroad if it kills me!" But not financially! I'll find a way around the cost factor. And that's what I did.

The Story Up to Date:

After deciding to build this railroad with determination I joined a Model Train Forum to see if I could find a way to build my own cheap track. But the cheapest way out seemed to be using 1/8" aluminum bar stock for the rails and building my own track from scratch. And even that would be fairly costly, plus everyone was warning that it would be an electrical nightmare because the aluminum rails would oxidize overnight and I would end up having tons of electrical problem. But THEN a guy suggested going with Battery-operated R/C trains. After thinking about this it really made sense. It will actually be so much easier to control these trains using R/C and not need to worry about electrified rails and all the isolation circuits, etc. So I decided to go the Battery-operated R/C route. I can easily convert these Bachman trains over to R/C control using a small computer board called a "Raspberry Pi". The Raspberry Pi already has PWM drivers for controlling the train motors precisely, it also has WiFi for the R/C control to my notebook computer. So I'm sold on the Battery-Operated R/C trains. This freed me up to making the track out of WOOD! Really CHEAP!

The Wooden Track Controversy:

This of course brings us to the wooden track controversy. There were mixed feelings about this on the Model Railroad Forum to be sure. Many model railroaders wouldn't touch wooden track because all they could imagine is rot damage. But my tracks will all be elevated and I'm not concerned with rot damage. I've built plenty of outdoor wooden projects that have lasted for years. So the idea of wooden track doesn't scare me off, and the prices is RIGHT! I can make my own wooden track for peanuts.

In fact, I already drew up jigs and a router table for constructing wooden track compete with wooden rails. Here are some of my drawings:

This is a drawing of the totally assembled wooden track complete with wooden rails.
The annotations were for an instructional post I made on the Model Railroad forum.
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End view of wooden track and rails:
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Just for interest I'll include a drawing of a homemade wooden turnout:

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I can even build my own turnouts really cheap. So this solves the track cost problem significantly. And the Battery-operated R/C trains will actually be more versatile for programming and running independently. Like I say no need to be wiring isolated electrical circuits on the track. In fact, the track won't be electrified at all.

Here's my proposed bogie sitting on my wooden track:

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So now you can see why aluminum wheels won't be a problem. They'll just be running on wooden rails anyway. Also it won't matter that the wheels are shorted together by the stainless steel axles. There's no electricity in the track. Nothing to short out.

So yes, this whole project is highly controversial. Many of the model railroaders have totally trashed the idea and have suggested that it's a total waste of time and effort that can't last more than a couple years at most. Others see the potential in it and the HUGE cost savings. It's a "Poor Man's Railroad" to be sure. No question about that. It makes model railroading in G scale available to the poor man. It's not intended to be the epitome of Model Railroading. And the controversy over how long the wooden track will last is up for debate. I think this is like the difference between boat-builders who argue that fiberglass is the only way to go and it would be stupid to build a boat out of wood. Yet there still exist die-hard wooden boat builders.

The wooden track doesn't scare me. I think it will last quite a long time. Like I say, all my track will be well-elevated off the ground and well-drained. I don't think it's going to rot out anytime soon. I have many wooden outdoor projects that have lasted for many years. So I'm confident that it's worth building.

Buy yeah, COST is a major factor in this whole process. If I could afford to pay the big bucks I could just buy commercially made finished products.

In short, these aluminum wheels should be more than sufficient for this project. I was originally thinking of casting the wheels, but then I decided that just making them from bar stock would be a lot less of a hassle. I was even thinking of casting them in bronze, but even casting bronze can get expensive. So I'm taking the CHEAP way out. I confess, I'm cheap, cheap, cheap!

I don't really have any choice in the matter. It's either keep the costs down or sell the trains and forget the whole project.

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Building the track too!! Now that is a total scratch build. I supose if they were steel you have rust issues so it could be just swings and round abouts.

I only know one person (have met a few times) with a railway in their garden, he had built double acting steem locos to go on them , he said he had been told by every one that it was imposible to have double acting trains in O gauge, turns out the crowds not always right. He also has a foden steam lorry (full size) so he is pritty up on steam stuff.

What sort of wood will you use for the rails?

I saw the modle versions of the german 1901(ish) monorail system that uses battery system and rc controls too.

Stuart
 
Just as an update. I took that little miter saw out of my cart and instead I'm getting a couple fresh bandsaw blades. :encourage:

I think I'll enjoy cutting this stuff at the bandsaw better than with that noisy little miter cut-off saw. I can build wooden jigs to hold the metal stock and keep the cut off parts from flying all over the shop. I think the bandsaw will be a better tool for this in the long haul. Thanks for the suggestion Mickey.

I can also stack a bunch of pieces in a jig and just go down the line cutting off a bunch of pieces in one fell swoop. I wouldn't be able do that with that miter cut-off saw. So the bandsaw will prove to be more "mass-production efficient" in the end.
 
Wow! I'm glad I took the time to post that picture. That's a big difference. So the back rake angle needs to be steeper. I can do that. I just need to know what angles to use. I'd like to grind up some tools that cut really well. So getting the cutting angles right is important. I found in the past that even a really sharp cutting tool that has bad angles won't cut very well.

By the way for the round-nose forming tool you suggested a "Top Angle" of zero. Are you saying that the top of the tool bit should just be left flat and all I need to grind on that is the 18 degree relief angles on the sides and front of the tool bit. I can see where a round-nosed tool bit would be difficult to grind a "back rake" angle on since that angle would be different around the curve of the nose.

I'll have to experiment with that one. I have several blank tool bits to play with so I can try a few different things. I'd like to make a lot of these wheels so I'd like to get this down to a science as best I can. Once I set everything up for making these bogies I hope to make quite a few of them.

We had a rather lengthy discussion on tool grinding that you might find helpful: http://hobby-machinist.com/threads/turning-tool-and-facing-tool-questions.36687/

I posted a general purpose tool in that thread with the shape that I think might work well for you. There is also a pic of a knife tool in there. And yes, a round nose tool is typically ground with a flat top; this is called zero rake as it has no back or side rake ground into the top of the tool. It will plunge and cut in either direction (toward or away from the headstock) and generally has a more generous nose radius so it finishes well. Such a tool works amazingly well in brass and plastics but is less efficient in other materials. I will do minor form work like you describe but you'll have to experiment with it to be sure it will work the way you intend.

Okay, you have a bandsaw. It will be far more useful for general stock preparation but for the other tiny pieces you need it might not work as well. Personally, I would make my own if cost is a concern. I would use a cut off blade, the kind that fits on a 4-1/2" grinder and make an arbor to fit onto an old universal/sewing machine motor. I would make a table with a slot for the wheel, build a jig like a sliding table for a table saw and part off as many pieces as I needed. Blades are cheap and readily available. If you have a small motor, this might be the cheapest way to go and can be tailored to your needs more easily.
 
Building the track too!! Now that is a total scratch build. I supose if they were steel you have rust issues so it could be just swings and round abouts

Yep, this is really going to be a scratch-built railroad to be sure. But the way I've designed these tracks they should build pretty quickly. It's an easy build actually. I'll also be able to make 8' long sections of straight track that will be really easy to deal with. j

I only know one person (have met a few times) with a railway in their garden, he had built double acting steem locos to go on them , he said he had been told by every one that it was imposible to have double acting trains in O gauge, turns out the crowds not always right. He also has a foden steam lorry (full size) so he is pritty up on steam stuff.

I'm hoping eventually to make my own scratch-built locomotives, but I'll probably stick with electric motors. Some guys on the Model Railroad forum are trying to convince me to go for building a real steam locomotive. But that would get quite involved. They you have to fire it up every time you want to run it, etc. It's just sounds like too much work for me. It would be cool, but a lot of work just to have a short run.

What sort of wood will you use for the rails?

I'm using White Oak, because that's the trees I have on my own property. I cut down the tree then cut it into lumber on a portable sawmill. White Oak is sometimes used in boat-building and has good rot-resistance. I think it will make decent rails. The ties are made of White Oak too.

I saw the modle versions of the german 1901(ish) monorail system that uses battery system and rc controls too.

Stuart

Once I realized that versatility of battery-operated R/C trains I was sold immediately. I work in robotics on occasion too and so I'm up on computer programming and small computers like the Arduion and Raspberry Pi. So once I realized the flexibility of having R/C trains controlled by my laptop talking to a Raspberry Pi in the Train via WiFi that sold me. I want this model railroad to be completely computer controlled in the end. So these R/C trains will be quite versatile for this. Far easier to work with than hard-wired electrical rails. That can get real complicated when trying to run multiple trains. Plus it requires a lot of hard-wiring to the rails. All that suddenly disappears when you move to Battery-Operated R/C trains. Now you are actually controlling the individual trains directly. The only thing left to worry about is having the turnouts in the correct position when the train arrives But I plan on having the turnouts R/C controlled too. So hard wiring will be virtually non-existent on my layout. And that's nice!
 
Your post explaining the project was really interesting and I hope the forum can help you make your dream a reality. There are some modelers here and one in particular (Jerry Glickstein) who is very skilled. Maybe PM him?
 
I love when people say it's a bad idea to do something I have figgered out and justified in my own mind. Let them say what they want, you seem to have a pretty good plan. Document the whole thing and when you finish and bebug it, post it on their, and our, forums. You go boy!
 
I was out in the shop cleaning up the lathe. It was buried in junk and quite rusty. I had to clean it all up with a wire brush on a hand-held grinder motor. Not looking too bad now.

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It's been a while since I've run this beast so I'm going to need to relearn how to do this.

I just realized the first order of business is to figure out what spindle speed to use. I have no clue. I just turn it on and it spins. (hee hee) I think the last time I used it I was cutting plastic parts so I probably have it cranked up about as fast as it will go. I don't even think I have a manual for this lathe, but fortunately the stickers on it are in pretty good shape.

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It appears it has a range of speeds from 150 rpm to 1600 rpm. So what speed range should I use for turning these aluminum wheels?

It's a good thing I read that label too. I better oil this thing up before I turn it on. Although I did run it when I was wire-brushing down the chuck and it seemed to run pretty smoothly.

Apparently it has a 4" 3-jaw chuck. Non-removable. I didn't know it didn't screw off when I bought this lathe. But it does come with a second set of jaws for grabbing I.D. or O.D. so that's nice.

If I sound like an idiot here it's probably because I am. :grin: I used to be really sharp when I was younger, you'll have to take my word on that. But lately I've been loosing mental capacity and probably shouldn't be playing with these dangerous toys anymore. But what the heck I can't just sit around doing nothing.

In any case, I remember now why I never used that parting tool before. It doesn't fit into the tool holder!

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If you look close you can see that it's quite a bit too tall. I was thinking of sticking it in a vice and grinding it down, some off the top and some off the bottom until I get it to fit. I think there's enough room to do that without grinding clear down to the actual grooves that hold the tool.

I just don't have anyway to hold this other than my turret tool holder. I don't have any other kind of tool post holders. And besides, I'd like to have it mounted on the tool turret so I can just click over to it when I need it.

So I guess I'll have to look into grinding that thing down. I can't mill it or drill it, it's hardened. I actually bought it with this lathe, I had no clue it wasn't going to fit. But I think I can grind it down enough to fit, hopefully. It's never been used. Precisely because it doesn't fit!

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