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Thread: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

  1. #1
    Tungsten Carbide itsme_Bernie's Avatar
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    Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    Hey HM Folks!

    I would like to set myself up to lightly reshape carbide tools, to the proper tip geometry, and hone them to a fine edge. I do believe that carbide serves some purposes and certain situations in the home shop.

    Between a grinder wheel or a honing station of some kind, I would like to be able to make use of all this Carbide I have. (If this has already been covered here, please point me toward the thread

    I have a 6 inch Baldor 500 Tool Grinder, and I thought I would set up one wheel to cut Carbide tools, and keep the other wheel for HSS.

    Does anyone out there have experience sharpening carbide?
    What do you guys do with your carbide? Diamond wheel? Hone?
    If you use diamond, what grit you use?
    Any wheels that have served you well?
    Do you have any suggestions for vendors? I like McMaster, but $$$!!

    McMaster has them for $160 to $200 D8 !!
    http://www.mcmaster.com/#diamond-gri...wheels/=osw8yu

    After seeing Nelson's old post sharing Conrad Hoffman's page, I thought that a Diamond wheel (with ??? Grit?) would allow me to lightly reshape, and then I should hone the edge with a fixture like Conrad Hoffman (web page below)?

    http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showt...Conrad-Hoffman

    Is a Diamond wheel my best choice?

    Questions questions questions!!!!
    Thanks for your help guys!


    Bernie
    Last edited by itsme_Bernie; 10-05-13 at 07:59 PM.
    Bernie

    Let's help each other with similar machines! Here's what I got:
    South Bend Heavy 10 Lathe -1965
    Hardinge TM Horizontal Mill - 1949 -- with RUSNOK ST Milling Head
    Sheldon 0 Mill -- with RUSNOK Model 70 Vertical Milling Head- 1955
    Sheldon 12 Inch Shaper
    Walker Turner 20 in Floor Drill Press 1100 -1950
    Hand-I-Hack Lipe Rollway Corp - 1950

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    Cast Iron
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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    Quote Originally Posted by itsme_Bernie View Post
    Hey HM Folks!

    I would like to set myself up to lightly reshape carbide tools, to the proper tip geometry, and hone them to a fine edge. I do believe that carbide serves some purposes and certain situations in the home shop.

    Between a grinder wheel or a honing station of some kind, I would like to be able to make use of all this Carbide I have. (If this has already been covered here, please point me toward the thread

    I have a 6 inch Baldor 500 Tool Grinder, and I thought I would set up one wheel to cut Carbide tools, and keep the other wheel for HSS.

    Does anyone out there have experience sharpening carbide?
    What do you guys do with your carbide? Diamond wheel? Hone?
    If you use diamond, what grit you use?
    Any wheels that have served you well?
    Do you have any suggestions for vendors? I like McMaster, but $$$!!

    McMaster has them for $160 to $200 D8 !!
    http://www.mcmaster.com/#diamond-gri...wheels/=osw8yu

    After seeing Nelson's old post sharing Conrad Hoffman's page, I thought that a Diamond wheel (with ??? Grit?) would allow me to lightly reshape, and then I should hone the edge with a fixture like Conrad Hoffman (web page below)?

    http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showt...Conrad-Hoffman

    Is a Diamond wheel my best choice?

    Questions questions questions!!!!
    Thanks for your help guys!


    Bernie
    The last time I resharpen or reshaped cemented carbide tooling was in a job shop. I recall using a cup shaped wheel. I don't think I honed my bits, its been to long ago. They always had a dedicated grinder for carbide tooling.

  3. #3
    Tungsten Carbide itsme_Bernie's Avatar
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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    Thanks Bill

    I just don't know the first practical thing about what grit wheel I would really need, or whether I even need a two-step process of grinding then honing, or just a proper grit wheel and start working.


    Bernie
    Bernie

    Let's help each other with similar machines! Here's what I got:
    South Bend Heavy 10 Lathe -1965
    Hardinge TM Horizontal Mill - 1949 -- with RUSNOK ST Milling Head
    Sheldon 0 Mill -- with RUSNOK Model 70 Vertical Milling Head- 1955
    Sheldon 12 Inch Shaper
    Walker Turner 20 in Floor Drill Press 1100 -1950
    Hand-I-Hack Lipe Rollway Corp - 1950

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    Tungsten Carbide itsme_Bernie's Avatar
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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    I also have been reading people discussing CBN wheels. Does anyone have experience with those?


    Bernie
    Bernie

    Let's help each other with similar machines! Here's what I got:
    South Bend Heavy 10 Lathe -1965
    Hardinge TM Horizontal Mill - 1949 -- with RUSNOK ST Milling Head
    Sheldon 0 Mill -- with RUSNOK Model 70 Vertical Milling Head- 1955
    Sheldon 12 Inch Shaper
    Walker Turner 20 in Floor Drill Press 1100 -1950
    Hand-I-Hack Lipe Rollway Corp - 1950

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    Chips
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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    I decided a while ago that I wanted to sharpen HSS and maybe carbide. My grinder has a 6" green wheel and a 6" diamond coated aluminum wheel. Since I am a rookie at this I decided to not spend much money. The cheapest diamond wheel was a lapidary wheel (I think it is 600 grit, sorry it was a while ago and I do not remember where I got it; it was a web purchase and i think it was around $70). I have used this for a couple of years with some success.
    The limitation to this wheel is that all the grit is on the outside diameter. There is no face; . This is a picture of a similar wheel I found on Ebay. Without a face you cannot get a flat surface, Every grind will be slightly concave. Other than that, it works well. It cuts carbide easily and leaves a nice finish. The diamond coating on mine is starting to wear thin and I will have to replace it shortly. I suspect that if this is something that you will use a lot, it may not last long enough.

    I hope this helps.

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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    The only CBN (cubic boron nitrate BTW) and diamond wheels I've ever used were on a cylindrical or surface grinder, I've never seen one used for free hand grinding though I don't see why it wouldn't work. They aren't meant for rapid metal removal,only a few tenths at a time. They have an aluminium alloy core and a layer about 1/2 inch thick or so of grit around the outside. They are very expensive, but if used properly will last many years.

    A simpler and less expensive choice for grinding carbide is to buy silicon carbide wheels. They are green in colour and can probably be found in your local hardware store. They tend to leave a rough surface so the carbide should be honed with a diamond lap to finish. The laps have a plastic backing that come in different colours to denote the grade. The diamond is embedded in a nickel plate stuck on the plastic. They last a long time, I have a few that I've been using for over ten years.

    All of this only applies to brazed on carbide tool bits. Carbide inserts can be resharpened, but as far as I know, it takes special equipment to do properly.

    Hope this is of some use.

    Sandro Di Filippo

    Sent from my ME301T using Tapatalk 2

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    Tool Steel
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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    Diamond is usually used on non-ferrous alloys (tungsten carbide falls into that category). cBN is usually used why grinding ferrous alloys. It also tends to be more expensive. I have heard (and this has been backed up by my own experience) that green wheels leave a rough finish on carbide. Diamond leaves a much smoother finish. What I did with my carbide scraper blades was to use a green wheel for rough shaping, and then finish with diamond. Green wheels are cheaper in any case, so best to use them for bulk material removal.

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    Tungsten Carbide itsme_Bernie's Avatar
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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    Thanks so much guys!

    I am pretty sure the wheels on it now are "green", since they are a light green color, so I may be good to go! One of the wheels is a little buggered up so it is a good excuse to replace the one anyway.

    The main reason for wanting to reshape the cemented carbide tools is to be able to correct all the boring bars with improper relief, and also be able to get more life out of the chipped cemented lathe tools. It would also be nice to put a small round the cutting tip to change the finish.

    Can I use the Green Silicon Carbide wheel on HSS as well as Carbide?

    Thanks so much for your help!

    Bernie
    Bernie

    Let's help each other with similar machines! Here's what I got:
    South Bend Heavy 10 Lathe -1965
    Hardinge TM Horizontal Mill - 1949 -- with RUSNOK ST Milling Head
    Sheldon 0 Mill -- with RUSNOK Model 70 Vertical Milling Head- 1955
    Sheldon 12 Inch Shaper
    Walker Turner 20 in Floor Drill Press 1100 -1950
    Hand-I-Hack Lipe Rollway Corp - 1950

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    Chips
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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    Get a face wheel, That is the diamond should be on the side of the wheel. The face wheel will work on your Baldor. Get one with as wide of a face as you can afford. 1/2 or 3/4 is better. 220 or 320 grit will work well as a roughing and finishing choice. You will not have to hone your tool. CBN is for Hi-speed tools only. Never use it on carbide. MSC or one of their competitors will have them under $100.

    50 years a Toolgrinder and proud of it.

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    Chips
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    Talking Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    Hi,
    My night for interesting posts, i guess. We use a lot of carbide, instead of HSS. Once you get a few diamond wheels, you never go back. It's great to work with. I got 2 wheels. One coarse and one very fine. Got them from a diamond tool company, nearby. Funny thing, they gave me a piece of molybdenum to dress the fine wheel with, when it's clogged up. They have 1/2" holes, so easy to mount on the bench lathes that we use. Also got some 6, 8, and 1,200 hand hones. They're about an inch long, double side taped to aluminum handles. I use water to hand hone with. If you use carbide ThinBits, and Nicole Mini System inserts, you can touch them up, unless they're TIN coated.

    I also bought a real old Baldor grinder, for a few $.000. It has diamond wheels on it. I never changed them, so i don't have a clue as to who made them, or what grit they are.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/BALDOR-522-CARBIDE-TOOL-SHARPENER-BENCH-GRINDER-115-VOLT-1-PH-ELECTRIC-GRINDER-/111160733930?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e1b230ea


    Best,
    Payson.

    PS I also bought a fine wheel, and a cutoff wheel for the surface grinder.

  11. #11
    Aluminum barrydc1's Avatar
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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    I don't know if your question has already been answered, but here is what I use. I do wish that they had a finer grit sometimes than the 220, but a light touch with 600 grit flat stone and it's ready to go. Here's the link: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...PARTPG=INLMK32. Hope this helps.

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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    I use those Enco diamond wheels too. Work good for me.

    Charl



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    Plastic
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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    Gents,

    The best thing I ever got from Harbour Freight was this saw sharpener:
    http://www.harborfreight.com/120-vol...ner-96687.html
    The key thing about it is that it runs relatively slowly! Just FYI, it is a brushed motor with a rectifier in the back end. It is slow enough that the diamonds don't diffuse into steel during cutting.
    What you need to do it swap to the diamond wheel, and cut a larger opening in the guard. Once you do that you have a great grinder that works on high speed steel, carbide, tungsten electrodes, etc. I use it all the time! I have it right next to the lathe and I regularly touch up tools (still in the toolholder). Here's where you cut the guard (I later opened it up more to the right). You can also modify the saw support into a decent tool rest. The grinding disc can be tilted relative to the table, so you can easily set your relief angles too.
    IMAG0849.jpg

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    Tungsten Carbide itsme_Bernie's Avatar
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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    Quote Originally Posted by xman_charl View Post
    I use those Enco diamond wheels too. Work good for me.

    Charl


    Charl- thanks for your reply- what grit wheel do you use? And for what?
    I want to be able to lightly reshape, and sharpen most of the way...


    Bernie
    Bernie

    Let's help each other with similar machines! Here's what I got:
    South Bend Heavy 10 Lathe -1965
    Hardinge TM Horizontal Mill - 1949 -- with RUSNOK ST Milling Head
    Sheldon 0 Mill -- with RUSNOK Model 70 Vertical Milling Head- 1955
    Sheldon 12 Inch Shaper
    Walker Turner 20 in Floor Drill Press 1100 -1950
    Hand-I-Hack Lipe Rollway Corp - 1950

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    Tungsten Carbide itsme_Bernie's Avatar
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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    Quote Originally Posted by barrydc1 View Post
    I don't know if your question has already been answered, but here is what I use. I do wish that they had a finer grit sometimes than the 220, but a light touch with 600 grit flat stone and it's ready to go. Here's the link: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...PARTPG=INLMK32. Hope this helps.
    Hey Barry

    Thanks for posting- very helpful.
    So you use the 220, and hone with the 600 stone?
    Do you find you could grind badly-formed heels off of boring bars with the 220, or is it too fine to reshape?



    Bernie
    Bernie

    Let's help each other with similar machines! Here's what I got:
    South Bend Heavy 10 Lathe -1965
    Hardinge TM Horizontal Mill - 1949 -- with RUSNOK ST Milling Head
    Sheldon 0 Mill -- with RUSNOK Model 70 Vertical Milling Head- 1955
    Sheldon 12 Inch Shaper
    Walker Turner 20 in Floor Drill Press 1100 -1950
    Hand-I-Hack Lipe Rollway Corp - 1950

  16. #16
    Global Moderator Rbeckett's Avatar
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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    Just a quick note. CBN will not grind carbide. It will do a great job on HSS, but will not touch carbide at all. If you use CBN you just wasted the price of that wheel. I use the Pink wheels with very good results and they are much cheaper and wear a long time even when sharpening tungsten's for my tig. HTH

    Bob
    If you don't have something positive to say, keep it to yourself it makes you look so much smarter.

    Life Resolution--NEVER let my shop get cluttered again....EVER!!!!!

  17. #17
    Cast Iron pineyfolks's Avatar
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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    I just use the green wheels, 120 grit. I found using a dremel with a diamond tool works great for making chip breakers.
    Bill

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    Brass savarin's Avatar
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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    This may be of use
    http://www.shell-lap.com.au/shelllap...ond%20Discs%22
    I would suspect there are similar providers in the states.
    Asian 9x20, some rusty files and a hammer

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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    I don't know the quality but CDCO has diamond wheels for $69.00
    http://www.cdcotools.com/ just go to machine tooling then grinding machine tooling.
    Craftsman 101 12x36, Grizzly G704, Emerson-Craftsman Radial armsaw & table saw.

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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    The best thing I ever got from Harbour Freight was this saw sharpener:
    http://www.harborfreight.com/120-vol...ner-96687.html I use it too...


    This is my enco diamond wheel on my harbor fright grinder. Have
    white wheel on other side for HSS junk.

    Charl


    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Tungsten Carbide itsme_Bernie's Avatar
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    Re: Sharpen and Hone Carbide Tooling

    Thanks so much for your help guys- I ordered a Silicon Carbide wheel from a local supplier, SpeedCut in Fairfield, NJ. I try to buy locally when I can.

    I did not mention any other searches or stores, and he gave me a good deal. I'll let you know when it is all hooked up and running!

    Bernie
    Bernie

    Let's help each other with similar machines! Here's what I got:
    South Bend Heavy 10 Lathe -1965
    Hardinge TM Horizontal Mill - 1949 -- with RUSNOK ST Milling Head
    Sheldon 0 Mill -- with RUSNOK Model 70 Vertical Milling Head- 1955
    Sheldon 12 Inch Shaper
    Walker Turner 20 in Floor Drill Press 1100 -1950
    Hand-I-Hack Lipe Rollway Corp - 1950

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