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Thread: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

  1. #1
    Copper OldMachinist's Avatar
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    Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    I picked up this universal dividing head last week. I torn it down and cleaned out the decades of grime that was inside it. Put it back together, adjusted the worm and spindle properly now it spins smooth as silk, with no backlash.




    The quick index plate on the spindle is cracked and has been somewhat repaired in the past. I'm going to try brazing the cracks and see how it looks. If it doesn't work out I'll make a new one.



    It originally had little pop up oilers, two were missing and I damaged the other one knocking it out. So I'm going make new ones.



    I need to find a couple of acessories for it.
    Tailstock
    #10 Brown & Sharpe dead center
    Chuck mounting plate 2 1/4"-4 1/2 threads per inch

    I pretty sure I'll have to make the chuck plate because I haven seen anything in that old spindle thread size in years. But if someone has one laying around let me know.
    My name is Don and I'm a machinaholic


    " Steel can be any shape you want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you are not".....Robert M. Pirsig

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    Steel 8ntsane's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Paul
    Nice score.
    I was looking at a universal dividing head this week. The thing has a bunch of change gears D-1 chuck mount, and all the goodies. Though, it appears loaded with all the optional parts, I think Id grow old trying to figure out how to use it. Still undecided yet.

    Just wondering, what yours set you back, if you dont mind me asking?

    Paul

    All My Rowdy Friends Have Settled Down.

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    Copper OldMachinist's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    I paid $200 for it with only the 2 index plates.

    If all you're planning on doing is some easy indexing you don't need all the change gears and arms. If you have a machine that you can gear it to the table lead screw then you could do spiral milling but like you said that will take some figuring out. I was just looking for something to make a occasional gear and this one came up in my price range.
    My name is Don and I'm a machinaholic


    " Steel can be any shape you want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you are not".....Robert M. Pirsig

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    Steel 8ntsane's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-s...AdIdZ426736416

    This is the one I was looking at. Not cheap by ant stretch. The owner would only go down to $550.00

    This thing looks scary to figure out how to use it.
    Paul

    All My Rowdy Friends Have Settled Down.

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    Copper OldMachinist's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    $550 is a good price for all of that if he has the 100 plus page manual that tells you how to use it.
    My name is Don and I'm a machinaholic


    " Steel can be any shape you want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you are not".....Robert M. Pirsig

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    Tungsten Carbide Hawkeye's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Dividing heads are such a big deal that Shop Theory, the textbook for the Henry Ford Trade School devoted more content to it than to any other single topic. The site software doesn't like big files, so it's in five sections. Try to stay awake.

    Dividing Head Part 2.pdf
    Dividing Head Part 1.pdf
    Dividing Head Part 3.pdf
    Dividing Head Part 4.pdf
    Dividing Head Part 5.pdf

    You'll notice that the Attachment Manager decided to change the order of the files.
    Mike

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    Cast Iron bcall2043's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Dividing heads are such a big deal that Shop Theory, the textbook for the Henry Ford Trade School devoted more content to it than to any other single topic...............
    That is a great set of books! I found a set in a used book store under "Automobiles". I guess the word "Ford" was all the store person understood.

    Benny
    The Orphanage Never Closes

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    Steel 8ntsane's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Quote Originally Posted by OldMachinist View Post
    $550 is a good price for all of that if he has the 100 plus page manual that tells you how to use it.
    I know, I thought it wasnt dirt cheap, but for the complete setup as in the pics, it wasnt to bad. A few things are stopping me though. The first thing, he claims it isnt a US built setup. It is apparently made in Tiawan. The second thing is, he has no manual for the dividing head.


    With out a manual, how do I really know if its 100 percent complete as claimed. If the manual was available, I could atleast verfiy everthing is there. He cant give me any more infro other than where it was made, but not by whom. Kind of a bummer.

    What would you do? take a chance, or skip it. and keep looking else where?
    Paul

    All My Rowdy Friends Have Settled Down.

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    packrat 4gsr's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    I made a faceplate/chuck adapter plate for a B & S dividing head I had years ago. You have to counterbore and "blunt start" the thread for almost 3/8" in to get it to thread on the spindle properly. That 4-1/2 pitch thread was a trick to do on a 9" SBL! I no longer have the dividing head but still have or had the dead center that went to it. I'll do some looking and see if I can find it for you.
    Ken

    A 1954 20" Lodge & Shipley Model X gap bed lathe, A 1957 13" Sheldon Sebastian lathe, A 1949 9" South Bend lathe, 645 Wells Index mill, Brown & Sharpe 612 Valuemaster surface grinder and other misc junk (my gold mines to me).

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    Copper OldMachinist's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Quote Originally Posted by 8ntsane View Post
    I know, I thought it wasnt dirt cheap, but for the complete setup as in the pics, it wasnt to bad. A few things are stopping me though. The first thing, he claims it isnt a US built setup. It is apparently made in Tiawan. The second thing is, he has no manual for the dividing head.


    With out a manual, how do I really know if its 100 percent complete as claimed. If the manual was available, I could atleast verfiy everthing is there. He cant give me any more infro other than where it was made, but not by whom. Kind of a bummer.

    What would you do? take a chance, or skip it. and keep looking else where?
    It looks like everthing is there. There are 12 gears in the gear set which is the right number. I'd have to do some searching to see what the tooth counts should be. The info that Hawkeye posted should apply and there is info in the Machinery handbook.
    If I had the cash I'd go for it.
    My name is Don and I'm a machinaholic


    " Steel can be any shape you want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you are not".....Robert M. Pirsig

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    Tungsten Carbide Old Iron's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    I have the same Brown & Sharpe Dividing Head. I had up loaded the manual in PDF to the old forum, Don't know why it didn't make it here.

    I don't know if I still have it because my shop computer got hit by lightning. I'll look on my CDs and see if I can fine it when I get time. Right now the shop is in a mess every thing on one side is setting in the middle.

    Paul
    My Machines
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    13" South bend Lathe, 20 X 60 ATW Lathe, Universal Brown & Sharpe Horizontal
    With Vertical Head, Jones & Shipman Surface Grinder, Milwaukee Die Filer,
    Camel Back Drill press And others.

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    Steel 8ntsane's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Mike, and Paul

    Thanks for the infro
    Paul

    All My Rowdy Friends Have Settled Down.

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    Copper OldMachinist's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Ken, please do let me know if you find the dead center.

    Paul, I have a copy of the manual that comes with the import reproductions of these heads. If you have a copy of the original B&S manual I'd like to see that.

    Thanks Guys.
    My name is Don and I'm a machinaholic


    " Steel can be any shape you want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you are not".....Robert M. Pirsig

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    Copper OldMachinist's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    I did a little more work on the dividing head. I brazed the broken quick index plate.
    Bolted it down to a fixture plate to make sure all the index holes would line up after brazing.




    Back side got machined flat so I could flip it over and braze the front side.







    I made new #12-32 screws for the regular and quick index plates. You can't buy #12's in that pitch anymore. The ones for the quick index plate were oval heads and the other ones were flat heads.







    Next part of the project will be to make the new pop up oilers.
    Last edited by OldMachinist; 11-06-12 at 04:26 PM.
    My name is Don and I'm a machinaholic


    " Steel can be any shape you want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you are not".....Robert M. Pirsig

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    packrat 4gsr's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Oldmachinist,

    I haven't had any luck finding that dead center. I have one more place to look, in the attic. It's still fairly warn down here in South Texas to climb up in the attic right now. First really cold cold front that makes it down here, I will get up there and look.
    Ken

    A 1954 20" Lodge & Shipley Model X gap bed lathe, A 1957 13" Sheldon Sebastian lathe, A 1949 9" South Bend lathe, 645 Wells Index mill, Brown & Sharpe 612 Valuemaster surface grinder and other misc junk (my gold mines to me).

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    Copper OldMachinist's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Thanks Ken I understand not wanting to get up in a hot attic. I have several places I won't go until it cools down because of the heat.
    Don
    My name is Don and I'm a machinaholic


    " Steel can be any shape you want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you are not".....Robert M. Pirsig

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    Aluminum
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Does the unit have B & S id plate somewhere? I have a universal I bought 5 or 6 yrs ago and have never used. It looks like yours and I have 3 plates and a 3 jaw chuck that each jaw adjusts like a 4 jaw.
    I do not have the bars and gears. I have found no identification anywhere. I also got a couple of extra index plates that don't fit this machine. If I live long enough I hope to use it some day.
    Joe
    Joe Smith, Tool junkie
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    Copper OldMachinist's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    No ID tag on mine either. Several manufacturers have made dividing heads of the same design but they used a different more common spindle thread like 2-1/4" X 8 TPI. Mine has a 4 1/2 TPI spindle thread that as far as I know only Brown & Sharpe used. Another thing is the little guard over the gears behind the index plate. The newer reproductions don't have this guard.
    My name is Don and I'm a machinaholic


    " Steel can be any shape you want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you are not".....Robert M. Pirsig

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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Don, Thanks for the info. I just checked mine. The headstock spindle is 2 1/4" x 4 1/2 tpi. It must be a B & S?? I also located 3 dividing plates and the tailstock and about a 7" 3 jaw independent chuck. I found an extra old tailstock but it is for a smaller index head. I also cound 2 extra dividing plates that are about 1/2" larger i diameter and 1/8" thicker. I don't have the headstock center either but do have one on the tailstock. I planned to make the center and some adapters to MT3 on my SB 10. I have had good luck making tapers using the taper attachment.

    i a j1 Bridgeport that I plan to mount this dividing head and a 8" rotary table. I use my 9x42 Enco for milling most of the time because it is in better condition and has dro's.

    I have been using a HF 8" rotary table that has an index plate mainly because it has a MT3 center. It has done fine for simple indexes(bolt heads, faceplate holes etc.) I have made mt3 adapters for several of my smaller chucks. I can make a bolt blank on the lathe and move it to the rt without resetting the work. Very convenient.

    BTW that is a nice job on the plate repair.

    Joe
    Joe Smith, Tool junkie
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    packrat 4gsr's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Oldmachinist,

    Your dividing head is definitly a Brown & Sharpe. It is exact to mine in detail except for the index arm, which yours is off centered, mine was on center. Mine came off of a no. 2 mill that last patent date was around 1910-12. It worked perfect on my No. B & S mill from about the same time period. B & S made many variations of this dividing head over the years. All I can say yours is very old, probably produced before the 1930's if I had to guess. We got a cold front coming, I'll try to get up in the attic early next week and see what I can find.
    Ken

    A 1954 20" Lodge & Shipley Model X gap bed lathe, A 1957 13" Sheldon Sebastian lathe, A 1949 9" South Bend lathe, 645 Wells Index mill, Brown & Sharpe 612 Valuemaster surface grinder and other misc junk (my gold mines to me).

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    Copper OldMachinist's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Ken,
    I knew it was old because of the off center index handle and it doesn't have rollor bearings for the spindle. I have a PDF copy of the B&S 1913 catalog that shows dividing heads with the offset handle. I also have a pdf of a old copy of the B&S #2 mill manual that show the dividing head as having bearings.
    Last edited by OldMachinist; 11-10-12 at 12:49 AM.
    My name is Don and I'm a machinaholic


    " Steel can be any shape you want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you are not".....Robert M. Pirsig

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    Copper OldMachinist's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    I finished the pop up oilers today.
    Next on the list is a thread gauge for the spindle so I can make a face plate, chuck adapter and spindle thread protector cap.












    Last edited by OldMachinist; 11-13-12 at 10:23 AM.
    My name is Don and I'm a machinaholic


    " Steel can be any shape you want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you are not".....Robert M. Pirsig

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    packrat 4gsr's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Oldmachinist,

    My son got up in the attic and we were unable to locate it. Sure found a bunch of other stuff I forgot about. Sorry.

    I did find a eBay seller that has one for sale. Here's the link if your interested.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIVIDING-HEA...item25777d96d4

    Ken
    Ken

    A 1954 20" Lodge & Shipley Model X gap bed lathe, A 1957 13" Sheldon Sebastian lathe, A 1949 9" South Bend lathe, 645 Wells Index mill, Brown & Sharpe 612 Valuemaster surface grinder and other misc junk (my gold mines to me).

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    Copper OldMachinist's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Ken,
    Thanks for looking and for the ebay link. I hadn't seen that one.
    My name is Don and I'm a machinaholic


    " Steel can be any shape you want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you are not".....Robert M. Pirsig

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    Copper OldMachinist's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Too bad I didn't see that center last week when it didn't sell for $25. Somebody wanted worst than me and paid $45 plus shipping this week.

    I'll just set up the taper attachment on my lathe then turn and grind one from some prehardened 4142 I have. I have a #10 B&S reamer that I cleaned the spindle bore up with that I'll use to set the taper attachment.
    My name is Don and I'm a machinaholic


    " Steel can be any shape you want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you are not".....Robert M. Pirsig

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    Chips
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    I've just acquired a very similar 10" B&S dividing head. I've started to take it apart today. The one thing that seems frozen is the knurled knob on the "non crank" side. It seems to connect to a small gear that runs through to the crank side. I noticed that in the first pictures of this thread that your machine has the same thing. For the life of me I can't figure out what this is for!! (And I'm not looking forward to fabricating a chuck backplate with their goofy 2-1/4 x 4-1/2" thread)

  27. #27
    Copper OldMachinist's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    That knob turns a gear inside to rotate the worm in and out of engagement. The unknurled part is a lock nut. Loosen it first and then you can rotate the knurled knob to dis-engage the worm so you can turn the spindle by hand.
    My name is Don and I'm a machinaholic


    " Steel can be any shape you want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you are not".....Robert M. Pirsig

  28. #28
    Copper OldMachinist's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    I never did find a complete dead center for the dividing head but I did find a #10 B&S center with the straight diameter for the bar to drive a lathe dog. I made the bar based on the picture of the one that sold on Ebay for $45.

    DSCF2111.JPG
    My name is Don and I'm a machinaholic


    " Steel can be any shape you want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you are not".....Robert M. Pirsig

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    packrat 4gsr's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    OldMachinist,

    Looks original to me!

    Nice job!
    Ken

    A 1954 20" Lodge & Shipley Model X gap bed lathe, A 1957 13" Sheldon Sebastian lathe, A 1949 9" South Bend lathe, 645 Wells Index mill, Brown & Sharpe 612 Valuemaster surface grinder and other misc junk (my gold mines to me).

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    Tungsten Carbide Old Iron's Avatar
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    Re: Old Brown & Sharpe 10" dividing head

    Don I've been looking for that manual but I guess I've lost it or put it away where it would be safe.

    I had up loaded it to the old site but it never made it here. I guess it went to the same place as mine.

    The bar looks good but mine doesn't have the locking bolts on it.


    Paul
    My Machines
    K & T Milwaukee Vertical & Horizontal, 12" Hendy Shaper, 13" LeBlond Lathe,
    13" South bend Lathe, 20 X 60 ATW Lathe, Universal Brown & Sharpe Horizontal
    With Vertical Head, Jones & Shipman Surface Grinder, Milwaukee Die Filer,
    Camel Back Drill press And others.

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