Combo Machine Quality

[chip whisperer]

Browsing through other forum sections, it seems most folks poo-poo the lathe/mill (/drill?) combo machines as being the very definition of compromise -- terrible at all 3 tasks. The main advantage is space savings but also there is some cost benefit.

Anyway, as someone with limited space, how bad are these machines really?

ISTM the lathe component is exactly the same as the standalone machine. In fact many manufacturers just have a kit that adapts one of their existing mill columns to one of their existing lathes.

For the mill component, are you giving up a significant amount of rigidity afforded by the base of the standalone version of the mill vs mounting it to the carriage? It doesn't seem so given that this class of mill is pretty "lightweight" to begin with.

 

[intjonmiller]

Don't you love it when someone with 2,000 square feet of shop space, three lathes, two mills, and a surface grinder tells you to skip the combo machines? Don't get me wrong, I think having a Clausing, a Monarch, and a South Bend would be great! Not to mention the Bridgeport. But that's not realistic for many of us.

I expected that my first machine/s would be a combo due to size and budget constraints. Then my brother surprised me by passing my father's machines to me. If it wasn't for that it would be a long time before I got dedicated machines.

The main compromise isn't rigidity, beyond the lightweight class matter you identified. You won't be taking 0.250" with a big shell mill, that's for sure.

No, the main compromise is that it is small. The work envelope is limited, especially for milling. There is also some amount of time to switch from one mode to another. It's clearly not a production machine.

But it is going to be more rigid and have a larger work envelope than trying to mill on a small lathe (which can be done, with its own set of frustrations/challenges).

If it's what you have space and budget for then I say do it. Just be aware that people tend to outgrow them so if you keep an eye out (and put the word out) you should be able to find a good one (they are rarely found worn out) for well less than retail price.

 

[savarin]

All my milling is done on the lathe and I can tell you I would kill for a real mill.
The work envelope is very small and really strains the brain working out how to do what you want.
A three in one would be way better that what I have at present but separate machines would be the way to go if finances will stretch that far, mine wont so I have to come up with hopefully ingenious methods to do the work.

 

[wrmiller]

A long time ago I was considering a Smithy Granite(?) three-in-one and managed to find a local guy who had one. He was gracious enough to show me his machine and demonstrate how he got work done on his. And he managed to do some pretty incredible work I might add, but he had to always consider what the steps were and how to best go about it so configuration changes on the machine were minimal. Life happened, i.e., yet another Work Move, and I forgot about those machines for a while. Now I have larger machines than I really need and will shortly have to figure out if I can keep them through the (hopefully) Last Move of My Life or I have to sell them. Had I not listened to some, I'd still have my smaller machines and this scenario wouldn't have happened. My bad decision could cost me dearly, but it's my fault. My point is that you should make the best decision that makes sense to YOU, not to a group of people who have no investment in the decision and certainly won't be living with the consequences (those of us on this and other forums).

EDIT: I just looked up the Smithy Granite machines: Wow. The top-of-the-line is almost a half-ton and WAY more features and significant improvements over that which I was looking at years ago. I bookmarked the site 'just in case'...

 

[samthedog]

If that is all you can squeeze in, then get it. If you can possibly swing some more space, buy seperate machines. The fact you can leave something in the mill, set up and complete lathe operations is worth the extra room and expense IMO. I mean, I have a 20 foot shipping container with a full workshop. If I can squeeze all that in, then anyone with a double garage who wants a lathe, mill and drill press is golden.

Paul.

 

[jbolt]

I had a Smithy Granite Classic 1324 for 14 years. Separate machines are always preferable if space and cost allows. A DRO is a must have.

The Granite series are very capable machines if you understand their limitations and adapt to working with them. It was a good lathe with an okay mill. The round column mill is not as rigid as a comparable square column mill but is entirely adequate. The newer MAX and IMAX series have improved the milling capacity and quill rigidity. One thing I miss is not having a T-slot table on the lathe. The t-slot table allowed for clamping long work and using the lathe to drill the end of parts that were too long for the drill press.

I would suggest checking out the Yahoo Smithy forum and look at some of the projects that have been done. Some very impressive work. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/smithy-machines/info

Here are some example of work I did on my Granite:

 

[intjonmiller]

Beautiful work! And a perfectly balanced view of this category of machines. Thanks for sharing!

 

[savarin]

WOW! the quality of work I aspire to but have no hope of achieving.
Thanks for showing.

 

[chip whisperer]

If that is all you can squeeze in, then get it. If you can possibly swing some more space, buy seperate machines. The fact you can leave something in the mill, set up and complete lathe operations is worth the extra room and expense IMO. I mean, I have a 20 foot shipping container with a full workshop. If I can squeeze all that in, then anyone with a double garage who wants a lathe, mill and drill press is golden.

Paul.

I wish I had a double garage available. I have 16 linear ft of wall along which to place equipment. I have a 6' workbench, a drill press, a belt sander a grinder and a chop saw. I have to lose the drill press to add either a mill or a combo machine. I can actually fit a full size mill if the table is high enough to extend over the workbench. But I think I'd be better off with the lathe capability than a real mill.

 

[chip whisperer]

I had a Smithy Granite Classic 1324 for 14 years. Separate machines are always preferable if space and cost allows. A DRO is a must have.
...
Here are some example of work I did on my Granite:

Wow, thanks for posting that, it's reassuring to see the machine is just the tool and it's up to the skill of the operator. Unfortunately I fear my parts will look more like summer camp ashtrays ...

I need to make small "precision" parts in prototype or 3-5 piece runs. I am paying too much and waiting too long to have these made at a real shop. I do have access to "real" manual tools (bridgeport, etc) at work but I have to get everything done in a single session at a machine, and in my free time, so for most parts it's too much of a challenge. (I'm not all that experienced so I work very slowly.)

I got frustrated with the speed and cost of getting parts so started to shop for benchtop mills. I only just learned that there is such a thing as as combo machine. For parts that don't fit in the work envelope, well that sucks and I can do it at work or send it to a shop, but I think most of my parts would fit. I would love the capability to add CNC in the future, but that would only be a tiebreaker feature.

I like Wabeco a lot, but they are probably too expensive for me (new) and very limited support in the US. So the brands I'm looking at are Palmgren, Optimum and now Smithy. Too bad PM doesn't have a combo machine! I might start a new thread to help narrow down my choices, once I've studied the differences myself a bit more closely.

There is a Wabeco mill column with lathe adapter on ebay now, I could get that and a used lathe when it comes along, but that's still over $6k used, without DRO and again, limited support in the US.