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Cutting Aluminum on the Home Shop Table Saw.

Discussion in 'SAFETY ISSUES & EQUIPMENT' started by Bill Gruby, Sep 27, 2014.

  1. Bill Gruby

    Bill Gruby United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    This is a Safety Issue that Admin and the Moderation Team feel needs to be discussed in depth. I was PM'd by L. Barlow and one comment he made stood out. "It is probably more dangerous not to discuss it." With that said I open the floor to comments for and against this practice. This in no way infers that we here at HM are going to change our position on what is safe and what is not. We will never condone the use of a machine for something it was not intended to do. Your safety is our primary concern here.

    It will be OK to disagree here as long as it is done in a civil manner. If you post, make sure it is exactly what you wish to say before you post it. A good idea here is to preview your post before you post it. We would especially like to hear from those that do this on a regular basis. I think that should cover what we are looking for, now it is yours to discuss.

    Thank you;

    Admin and the Moderation Team.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2014
  2. kd4gij

    kd4gij United States Active User Active Member

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    A belt drive table saw can be easily and cheapley moded to do nice work on aluminum plate and sheat metal. Swap the pullys or motor to slow the blade down and use a 64th bimetal blade. But yes a tablesaw weather cutting wood or matel does require more care. Just be safe. And never push with your hands weather cutting wood or meatle.
     
  3. Ebel440

    Ebel440 United States Active User Active Member

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    I would never try it myself I don't even like using them to cut wood though. I feel safe using any proper metal cutting tool but the thought of an aluminum plate kicking back makes it seem too much of a risk. I can't imagine aluminum chips are good for the saw either.
     
  4. SWARFEATER

    SWARFEATER United States Active User Active Member

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    I do it all the time, a good sharp carbide blade goes thru alum like butter. some care and no haste helps too.
     
  5. Bill Gruby

    Bill Gruby United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I have a question. "If you were cutting .500 Aluminum Plate do you do it in one pass?

    "Billy G"
     
  6. John Hasler

    John Hasler United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    If I had any sheet aluminum to cut I'd consider modifying my radial arm saw by adding a leadscrew feed and installing a small diameter bimetal blade. The advantage is that the work can be clamped to the table. The leadscrew drive would be necessary to prevent autofeeding (it would be useful sometimes with wood).
     
  7. GA Gyro

    GA Gyro H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    IMO this thread is a good idea. Just saying 'DO NOT DO IT, IT IS DANGEROUS'... is like telling a kid to stay off the grass... we know what will happen.
    Better IMO to discuss openly the pro's and con's... so the 'adventurous' folks will understand what they are getting into. <grin>

    Most table-saws I have seen, were designed to cut wood. A table saw, un-like a lathe or mill, cuts with repeated gouging actions-rather than a smooth slice... This causes vibration, as cutting metal does in a machine tool. So again, beefy metal and a motor sized for the load, determines the ability to make the cut.

    Having said this... IMO one 'can' cut aluminum in a table saw... however it is a much more dangerous operation than cutting wood, which is already a dangerous operation due to the blade and table.

    Here are a few few safety tips, albeit by no means a thorough list (always read the tool manufacturer instructions before using the tool):
    *Remove all jewelry, loose clothing, roll up your sleeves, etc... see next item:
    *NEVER get anything close the blade, other than the part to be cut and the 'push shoe' (a scrap used to push the part cut through the table).
    *NEVER remove the blade guard. One of the purposes of that guard is to help avoid 'kick back'... which is a situation where the blade snags the work and slings it back at the operator... and with SIGNIFICANT FORCE. Which leads to:
    *DO NOT force a cut in a table saw. Whether you are cutting a 2x4, hard woods, or getting adventurous with aluminum, do NOT force the cut. Allow the saw to chew away at the rate it is comfortable.
    *ALWAYS have a sharp blade, with enough teeth to do a proper cut. This means 3-4 teeth minimum in contact with the work at any given time. Note this is almost impossible cutting thin aluminum sheet stock in a table saw... so here is a limitation to the effectiveness of expecting to use a table saw to cut aluminum.

    I am sure there are lots more safety points I have missed... just thought I would throw out a few to start the discussion going.

    In closing... if it were me, I would find another method, rather than a big-box store table saw.
    Just my $0.02 worth... :)
     
  8. savarin

    savarin Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I have used my workmate (table saw amongst other uses) to cut ally plate from 6mm up to 50 mm.
    If the blade has heaps of teeth and is sharp it cuts smooth and fast.
    The fine flat chips fly everywhere and I mean every where.
    The thickest I tried to cut was a stainless bowl filled with cast ally. I only got halfway through with that one.
    Today I used a hand held jig saw to cut 10mm ally plate, again the chips get everywhere.
    Plenty of wd40 as lube, not a tidy cut but only took 6 mins to cut an octogon of 130mm dia.
    For thinner than 6mm I like using the jig saw clamped in the vice upside down and sliding the material to the blade. Its surprisingly rigid and controlable.
     
  9. davidh

    davidh United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    i need to say, i followed the suggestion and cut 4 parts using my antique Craftsman horz. vertical bandsaw. i have to say, even a one eyed dude can cut pretty straight if the line is wide enough and dark enough.
    thinking about the noise and those dang shavings getting all over the wood shop was only a couple reasons i choose to not use the table saw... i believe it would work great if you had a blade that was for that. . . . i have a steelmax skil type saw that is scarey as heck to used, even with all precautions. . . but its results are really great for thicker things than sheetmetal.
    with a many toothed carbide blade, like maybe 100 teeth, on a table saw, running at about half speed with the blade exposure set quite high, would this not be very similar to a "cold cut saw" ? ? ? i would not go thru all the trouble to do that but im curious as to why it would or wouldn;t work. . . however,
    caution, caution, caution. always consider the outcome prior to attempting something you have not experienced. . . "the worst thing that could happen if i. . . . . "
    i will post some pictures of the project if they turn out ok. . . . . and thanks for the concerns.
    davidh, the old guy.
     
  10. Baithog

    Baithog United States Florida Machinist Group Moderator H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I used to be from the 'don't do it' camp. I had been taught from basic shop class on (when they had such things) that you only cut wood on a table saw... then along came affordable plastics and carbide and all that. The naysayers should take a trip on down to the local big box home improvement store. Most of them will stock a saw blade for non-ferrous metal. The manufacturers seem to think that you can spin that blade up and safely cut non-ferrous metal with it. I don't see ads on cable TV by lawyers looking to sue the manufacturer for the damages from the use of such a manifestly dangerous item, so a bit of logic would probably lead us to believe that it can be done safely.

    Many years ago when I worked for a large test&measurement corporation, I needed to make a fairly long cut in some 1/4-3/8 aluminum I was making a test fixture bracket out of. I don't remember the exact thickness any more. The band saw in the engineering shop was buggered up, as usual. I took the aluminum next door to the model/machine shop, told one of the machinists what I wanted to do, and asked what they used to cut the stock. He said that he'd do it for me, fired up the table saw and cut it. I was flabbergasted. I asked him if he did that often. He gave me one of those those 'dumb engineer' looks and asked what I thought they had a table saw for? He must have been right about what he was doing. OSHA and WISHA never cited the company for that 'unsafe' practice... and I'm sure that if you were to drag out the archived ISO9002 documentation, that the practice is enshrined there. Certainly the practice is not safe if done haphazardly, but most of our machinery is like that.
     
  11. savarin

    savarin Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    One thing I do worry about is the aluminium chips getting into the motor and shorting it out. I've not heard of this happening but the way they fly around I do think about it.
     
  12. John Hasler

    John Hasler United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    You should be using a totally-enclosed motor on a table saw.
     
  13. LEEQ

    LEEQ United States Active User Active Member

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    Having professionally operated a Milwaukee circular saw (hand held) designed for cutting metal, I hate it. Not the brand, the practice. Any tiny deviation from a true cut in any plane, in any amount instantly results in a slight to severe pinch and pop. After cleaning your pants you discover you have knocked one or more teeth off that pricey blade. I would opine that using a metal cutting blade in a table saw with both sides of the cut supported and the work pressed against the rip fence with an easy feeding pressure would be much safer than these hand held saws designed to do this job. I don't believe they would sell blades designed for metal cutting in a table saw if they thought it would be a problem. All that being said, I will avoid the practice after my own experiences circular sawing metal. I can't afford that many new pairs of drawers.
     
  14. kevin

    kevin United States Active User Active Member

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    I have cut thin aluminum with my table saw, before I got a metal cutting bandsaw, but not since. This tells me that, given a choice, I stay away from the table saw for cutting metal. On the other hand, it can be done, but more than the usual (wood cutting) precautions are necessary.

    - Use a sharp carbide blade with a lot of teeth; carbide blades designed for metal cutting are ideal (but expensive) so likely people are not going to make this special purchase (and maybe better to put the money into a metal cutting bandsaw anyway)
    - Wear a full face shield
    - Expect and prepare for kickback (that is - a small piece of metal flying back ay you at high speed)

    I'm inclined to agree with LEEQ - when I think about doing something in the shop that makes me nervous, I take this as a danger sign.
     
  15. GA Gyro

    GA Gyro H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Just for fun... Talking about inviting Mr Murhpy (murphys law) to your shop...

    Kinda like: The worst thing that could happen... probably will... LOL

    Seriously... if anyone is gonna be 'adventurous'... think it through before setting up and starting the saw.

    And one more thing... Have your cell phone in your pocket... just in case you need to call 911... :(
     
  16. barlow l

    barlow l United States Active User Active Member

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    I understand and appreciate the safety concerns the Admins have with this issue.

    I have cut Aluminum plate from .125 to 1.250, angle, tubing round and square and solid round stock with skill saw, miter saw, wood band saw and table saw. In fact, all my woodworking machines have cut more aluminum than wood.

    Cutting speeds for both wood and Aluminum are pretty close to the same. Do not confuse cutting steel with Non ferrous material, the speeds are very different.

    Cutting Aluminum on a table saw can be accomplished very successfully and safely IF and ONLY IF you use the blade INTENDED to do so. While a general purpose carbide wood blade will work fine in a miter saw or skill saw it will NOT work safely in a table saw. This is the part you MUST understand, the proper blade MUST be used.

    Running recap tires on a C7 Corvette WILL get you to 190 miles per hour but the end results will be disastrous if not fatal. So don’t run recap tires on your C7 vette and don’t use an incorrect blade to cut Aluminum on your table saw.

    I have attached a photo of the blade I personally use that is designed to be used in a table saw. They cost 50 to 60 dollars but last for a good number of cuts. I also leave the blade around .001-.003 below the top surface, this greatly reduces the amount of swarf in your face. Sometimes it may leave a small burr that needs to be cleaned up but the reduction in flying hot chips is worth the time to deburr.

    As with any tool or machinery use, common sense and caution must certainly be used along with the proper personal protection.

    71vQ5XErB4L__SL1500_.jpg

    71vQ5XErB4L__SL1500_.jpg
     
  17. keithmifflin

    keithmifflin United States Active Member Active Member

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    I spent 10 years in a shipyard and cut countless items of Alum. on table saw safely and easily. Take the same precautions you do with wood and yes the chips do fly but then you have your safety glasses on don't you. Kickback on the table saw follows the same rule as with wood. Now to just throw out a new thought to many, in the ship yards and in my own shop a carbide router bit on a wood hand router can do a very fine job for many things like radius corners and some decorative edges etc. Again secure the work well and use the same safety that you do with wood.

    Make good use of your existing tools just be sure that you also follow the same safety procedures you SHOULD with wood.
     
  18. sgisler

    sgisler United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I for one do it all the time. It bears repeating that all caution must be taken. But, a fine toothed carbide blade works a treat on non-ferrous metals. I've often cut 1/4" alum on a table saw. Ive cut up to 1/8" brass sheet on the table saw. I've cut several hundred round brass (1"dia) baluster end fittings at an angle on a table saw. I cut all my alum sections (angle, bar, tube, window extrusions) on a power miter saw with fine carbide blade.
    Again, obviously, be very careful! As we all know and agree, ALL the tools in our shops ARE inherently dangerous, more so if brain is not engaged.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. joebiplane

    joebiplane United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I was told that we could cut sheet steel siding with a Skil saw "BUT WE HAD TO REVERSE THE BLADE"
    Would this hold true for aluminium ??? and perhaps reduce the chips that my table say produses when cutting alum material ??
    Just wondering !
    Joe
     
  20. sgisler

    sgisler United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Again, a skilsaw with a fine carbide blade works great in alum also. Still, LOTS of flying chips. Have done it quite a lot. I'll add also, as Keith mentioned, that a router works well to square or round over edges in alum. I've used the router when laminating alum to a plywood base to flush trim the alum to the plywood.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  21. Brnoczech

    Brnoczech United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I just posted on the previous thread. You might check Morse Metal Devil 7 1/4" blades, which are carbide, and the one I have is for mild steel.
     
  22. LJP

    LJP United States Active User Active Member

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    I have been cutting aluminum on a table saw for 35 years. Mostly for cabinet shop projects. We always used about an 80 tooth carbide tipped blade, with a triple chip grind on the tooth. Cut offs with the miter guage are usually pretty easily done. Ripping along a fence is a little worse, but I would not hesitate. Keep the blade low and material tight to the table. Kick backs are more likely, than with wood. A raised blade will tend to hold the material down, but is far more dangerous with aluminum. Have cut brass as well.
    Recently was building a roof with steel roofing. I have cut the steel roofing (29 ga) with a Milwaukee skill saw with the blade reversed with good results. This time I bought a "double cut saw" from HF. It has 2 blades that spin in opposite directions, it worked about the same as the Milwaukee. I would not let anyone do what I did with these saws, that I did not feel had as much experience with these type tools as I do. Possibility of kick back is great, make sure your paying close attention to what your doing and be ready at all times for the kick back. I did all the cutting for a 12' x 45' roof with a hip at each end. There was a fair amount of cutting for this steel. Again if you are not experienced or confident with this type work, it can be very dangerous.
     
  23. brav65

    brav65 Active User Active Member

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    I have worked in the commercial window business and using a large cabinet table say with infeed and outfeed tables was part of everyday fabrication. We had a very high quality fine tooth carbide blade that was kept very sharp ( we had three blades and would send one out for sharpening and one in reserve) and use copious amounts of WD40. Feed rates should also be very slow and the use of guide and push blocks is recommended. We also had a full face shield along with the safety glasses that everyone was required to wear. I would also suggest hearing protection as there is a very loud high pitch noise created. Following those simple guidelines we never had an injury. We passed numerous state and federal safety inspection as well as insurance carrier liability inspections.
     
  24. barlow l

    barlow l United States Active User Active Member

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    UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you turn the blade backwards to cut Aluminum. NONE!
     
  25. GLCarlson

    GLCarlson United States Active User Active Member

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    Ditto, missed the move. Certainly agree that cutting Al, or anything other than wood, on a tablesaw with a blade intended for wood is something to be careful of. I use the Diablo blade mentioned above, specifically designed for non-ferrous metals, and it works well. I also routinely do a partial thickness cut on both sides (table saw fence keeps the cuts lined up), aiming for a thirty-second to a sixteenth thick center bridge- which is easily broken or cut. That approach avoids flying chips (they all stay under the table). A jigsaw cuts and a file cleans up the edge just fine.

    As with other posters, this is my go-to method for sheet stock -up to half inch or so- too big for my regular saw. If you use all the PPE -eyes, ears, pushblocks- and the right blades and speeds, the method works. It does require more care and thought than cutting wood!
     
  26. GLCarlson

    GLCarlson United States Active User Active Member

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    Just for fun, I put a 7.25", 80 flute milling cutter with a 0.25 DOC and 0.125 WOC cutting 6061 into Gwizard. Gwiz comes back with 300 rpm recommended, chipload per tooth .0016, and a feed of 37 ipm for 'light roughing' with HSS cutter. Carbide is about 720 rpm. Plug in 1500 rpm, feedrate jumps to 90 ipm for either carbide or HSS (that is, maxes out- not the actual number allowed) with a thou or so per tooth, at 5000 rpm chipload is 2 tenths. Could be the biggest problem cutting Al on an unmodified table saw is going too slow and rubbing rather than cutting. The Gwiz numbers do suggest that one ought to look at the blade speed, and almost certainly slow it down.
     
  27. Ed T

    Ed T United States Active User Active Member

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    I cut aluminum plate regularly on my table saw. I usually use a non-ferrous blade made for the purpose and have cut up to 1.5" thick material w/o any problems. As mentioned above, it does make lots of chips and they are hot. The biggest problem I have with the chips is that they tend to get tracked into the house and not everyone who lives here is happy about that. I pay attention and always have kickback on my mind, but I have never had it happen. I recognize that it can and stand off to the side so I won't be in the path should it occur. For regular alloys like 6061-T6 and other relatively hard stuff I cut dry. For dead soft things like some castings I cut up some time ago, I use WD-40 to help the chips not stick to the blade. I find aluminum cuts very well on the table saw and its a good way to reduce large pieces down to a manageable size quickly and with reasonable accuracy. It cuts at about 1/2 the feed speed of hardwood. I also have a junker saw fitted up with a Diablo steel cutting blade. I've cut some 1/8" mild steel on that, but it is not pleasant to use and I do so only if there is no viable alternative.
    Any metal cutting activity has some risk and they can be mitigated by thinking about what you are going to do and paying attention while you are doing it just like using a chain saw or driving to work. So, for me, cutting metal on the table saw is a good alternative to other methods. That doesn't mean that I'm endorsing or recommending it for anyone else. You will have to make that decision on your own.
     
  28. BinaryAndy

    BinaryAndy Iron Registered Member

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    I have cut a lot of wood on the table saw that is HARDER than 6061 aluminum (Argentine lignum vitae, ipe, Australian gidgee, etc.). I've also cut 6061 and 7075 up to 1.5" thick in one pass. This is on a smallish Craftsman portable table saw, nothing huge or high-end. I've also cut a whole lot of 2" square 6061 on a chop saw meant for wood at work, because that was the best and fastest way to do it.

    The first thing you must understand is that the table saw is usually the most dangerous machine in the shop, even when it's being used for what it's intended for.

    What makes a table saw dangerous when cutting wood is that the workpiece is not clamped down and is trapped between the blade (which is spinning towards the operator) and the fence. Wood has a lot of internal stress in it, and it moves when you cut it. If it moves in such a way that it no longer fits between the fence and blade, it can catch the blade and come at you. This danger is practically non-existent when you're cross-cutting, because you aren't using the fence.

    Aluminum does not move like wood does, and it's much more homogenous, no grain lines and rarely any hard spots, so it's actually much less likely to kick back than most of the exotic hardwoods I've cut. The surface speed is too high and the chipload is too low for aluminum (this is also true for hardwoods, BTW), but all that means is the blade will dull a bit faster than you'd like. Really the only hazard with aluminum that's any worse than with wood is the possibility of chips welding to the blade. Use lots of WD-40 and sharp blades, and that won't be much of a problem. I've found that aluminum on the table saw is actually not very sensitive to feedrate, though my blades tend to last longer, leave a better finish, and stick to the chips less when feeding a whole lot faster than you would expect.

    I would say that cross-cutting aluminum on the table saw is dramatically SAFER than ripping hardwood on the table saw.
     
  29. uncle harry

    uncle harry United States Active User Active Member

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    OK,

    As long as we can pick on Murphy, I'll risk identifying Koslowski's Law (Koslowski does not really exist) which states basically that Murphy was an optimist !
     
  30. SG51Buss

    SG51Buss United States Active User Active Member

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    Boy, am I glad this thread got started.

    I have a 9" disc sander with a 1/2 thick, 14" wide, 8" deep tilting table of 6061 aluminum. I need to cut a mitre slot about 3/32" deep and 5/16" wide in the thing. I have no milling machine for this, but do have 2 table saws and some fine-pitch carbide blades. This would probably require some sort of 'finger follower'. I suppose that I should cut the 2 outer kerf slots first, so the blade won't distort, then finish up with hogging out the center portion?

    Been pondering on this for quite some time, so I'll just keep watching this thread for now...
     

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