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If money was no problem, what would you get??

Discussion in 'QUESTIONS & ANSWERS (Get Help Fast Here!)' started by samthedog, Sep 27, 2013.

  1. samthedog

    samthedog Norway Active User Active Member

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    So you have won the lottery, now what machines would you buy? You can be as ambitious as you like.

    For me I think I would buy a Schaublin 150 lathe:

    scha10.jpg

    And a Schaublin 22 milling machine:

    img_0012.jpg

    So what about you folks? Let your imaginations run wild!!!

    Paul.

    scha10.jpg img_0012.jpg
     
  2. wrmiller

    wrmiller Chief Tinkerer H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I have already had this daydream. :)

    As I am quite happy with my little SB, I'd probably get the SB1037F 16x40 lathe and the SB1027F mill. Those would be big enough to allow me to do long gun building. And then I'd need everything else to go along with it: surface grinder, media blaster, buffer room, welder, etc.

    sb1037f.jpg
    sb1027f.jpg
     

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    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
  3. CNC Dude

    CNC Dude United States Active User Active Member

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    I think the machines would come second. First thing would be to get me a couple of acres, build me a nice home with a fancy kitchen to keep my wife entertained and then a whooping awesome detached building with at least 1500 SQFT to hold my shop.

    OK, now for tools. I think I would get the Grizzly catalog and look for some of the most expensive tools they offer. On the other hand, I already have a CNC mill (a tormach PCNC1100) and I just love all the stuff I can do with it, so I guess a CNC lathe would also come in handy. Tormach has been venting the idea of a CNC lathe for a few years and have been making an excellent job of drooling us to death with videos and such. When it will be available and how much will it cost is kind of an unknown, but with a few millions I guess I could enhance my chances of getting one of the first units.

    The millions are quite hard to come by, though... Ahhh! Day dreaming! the wonders you make on our puny brains...
     
  4. November X-ray

    November X-ray United States Active User Active Member

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    All I can think of is money was no problem, I'd buy a new butt because mine has a crack in it and the way it's been dragging lately I'm pretty sure I've worn a hole in it. (okay, just kidding as it was in humor, albeit poor humor)

    Actually if money were no problem, I'd start a non profit organization that took "at risk" people and teach them to be machinist, welders, electricians, carpenters, etc. etc. and take jobs on for cost. I'd have a large tract of land that would have a large central classroom/shop with housing for singles and families and make it mandatory that all persons attend multiple classes on varying disciplines including home economics, managing a budget, math and other technical lessons in order to become self sufficient and productive in society. They would receive a small wage and room and board, of course drug and alcohol testing would be mandatory as well as attending certain social functions. The only caveat would be once a person becomes self sufficient, I'd ask that they help teach others for a period of time and pay it forward!

    Now if only I could win a few hundred million from the lottery, because I see no other way I would become that wealthy honestly!
     
  5. Rbeckett

    Rbeckett Platinum Rest In Peace

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    If money were not a concern. I would probably expand my shop considerably and make it tall enough to lift a vehicle in and get a full size frame building jig/plate. I might upgrade my machinery to something a bit more current and a tad larger. My big investment would be in tooling and making the stuff available to friends and acquaintances. I kind of see it as the go to place when you need a part made or to get a piece to repair whatever youre working on like a hay bailer, root rake, hydraulic cylinders and controls, Boats, cars, whatever ya need to get going. The rest of us could sit on the screened in front patio in the shade and drink iced tea and bench race till somebody finally wins...Of course it would have adequate air, water, plumbing for a bathroom and shower, heat and A/C, 110 and 220 drops everywhere and an EPA compliant waste collection system to protect the environment. The welders would have fume extractors and an adequate down draft table for fabbing up whatever you want.......And then I woke up, and I was still disabled and my shop was still 20X20.

    Bob
     
  6. DMS

    DMS United States Active User Active Member

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    Haas mini mill with chip conveyor and automatic tool changer, and a brand spanking new Monarch 10EE with metric/english gearbox. Perhaps a new house to go with the new shop as well ;)
     
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  7. ARM

    ARM South Africa Active User Active Member

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    Would love my own EDM, a JONES & SHIPMAN Surface Grinder, a DEKEL Milling machine, another Schaublin Mill and a SCHAUBLIN 150 LATHE as well.
    Add a WEILER MATADOR VS2 and a LEINEN Lathe and a DEKEL PANTOGRAPH while we are at it.
    Oh, and before we forget, cap it all of with an ACIERA DRILL PRESS.
    Now that's all worth a Dream.
    aRM
     
  8. mclarenross

    mclarenross United States Active Member Active Member

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    A few of the Mazak or Haas 9 axis CNC machining centers would be in my new 5000 SqFt climate controlled shop on my 10000 acre piece of land in central Texas. And a lifetime supply of inserts and endmills.
     
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  9. samthedog

    samthedog Norway Active User Active Member

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    This is slightly off topic but this is what the education system should be teaching people already. As an ex-school teacher, I explained to my students that the subject I taught may never be needed again. The skills to research, construct and deliver the projects on the other hand would give them experience managing their time, finding key information, constructing logical arguments and working to a deadline.

    One of the first things I teach my students is how to set objectives, that are

    Specific
    Measurable
    Attainable
    Realistic
    Timely

    Then memory techniques and then the MURDER study technique. The idea is that they should be learning skills, not a subject. Teaching people about things, is not the same as teaching people how to do things. This was one of the reasons I left the education system and develop training programs for private enterprise. Less babysitting and more actual teaching, coaching and training.

    Paul.
     
  10. GK1918

    GK1918 United States Active User Active Member

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    Thats it Paul, that is what I have been trying to say. Remembering writing stupid book reports on Coloumbus course I got a "F" I was more
    interested in the boat than him. Even then my thoughts were, Coloumbus never did and never will pay my bills. But my 'twist' was, say
    a book report on Marconi or Telsa that was straight "A's". Talk about being ridiculed, I was the only boy in high school who took sewing as
    an elective subject. And as of now, I possess a industrial Singer 220 3 ph machine. I was prohibited for shop class by my parants, they
    called it dumb bell school, and every one of those dumpbells now are successful business owners and just about all of "the most likely to
    succeed", ended up in Macdonalds or some box stores.

    Back to the post, I'm easy, I want a 36" Cincy shaper and a plasma cutter .
     
  11. Bradman

    Bradman Active User Active Member

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    If money were no problem? I have a nice shop and adequate tools so if I had the money I would hire people to do all the things that use up my time so I could spend it in the shop making things. I'm always amazed at how much time it takes to do the simplest things around the house and helping family members that can't do the simplest things. I'd also buy a new milling machine as the old round arm Bridgeport is getting tired. As someone posted I have thought many times about a vocational training center and how beneficial that could be.
     
  12. Hawkeye

    Hawkeye Canada Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    If I suddenly came into that kind of money, just watch how fast I start building a new house somewhere around here with a shop big enough to keep me going for life. And NO strata!

    After that, for some reason, I've developed an itch for a bigger lathe. No particular brand. New or used. And since I'd have a big enough shop, I'd keep the current lathe for odd jobs.
     
  13. Bill Gruby

    Bill Gruby United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    If yer gonna dream, DREAM --- I' keep what I have and hire someone to operate them for me. :lmao::lmao::lmao:

    "Billy G"
     
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  14. Ray C

    Ray C United States Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm pretty happy with my life the way it is -sometimes dismayed about the state of politics and other world affairs but, my grandmother always said, "Wish in one hand and spit in the other, see which one gets filled faster".

    Anyhow, equipment wise, I get the urge for a beefy lathe all the time and I'd like to get the PM 1440HD or possibly the 1440RML. They have very wide beds and heavy carriages -and also weigh overall much more. That really makes a lathe feel like a Cadillac. As for silly wild dreams, just like you guys, more space and a good supply of nice metals is a fun pipe dream...


    Ray
     
  15. GK1918

    GK1918 United States Active User Active Member

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    Thats a good one Ray, thats why I wash my hands in the gas bucket, one hand full of grease, says to the other "thats horse ****". lol..
     
  16. george wilson

    george wilson United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I had a Weiler Matador that I bought and really had no place to keep it. I sold it to a friend. A year or 2 later,we bought a bother house,and I built a much larger shop. Now,when I call my friend,I have to listen to how great the Matador is!!:) They are putting Weiler lathes on some of the new aircraft carriers that just came out. They are very fine lathes,and very handy to operate.
     
  17. ARM

    ARM South Africa Active User Active Member

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    GEORGE WILSON Esq
    U now getting me all flummoxed
    We thought we would be getting our "DREAM MACHINE"
    This is a slight deviation from the Topic but leads on.
    Hear me out as U would be the best Guy to make an informed input here.

    We are in the process to finalise a Deal on a nice 12 x 24 Sturdy solid Lathe from Taiwan with VSD Increased to 2500 RPM (as requested), 5C Draw Bar, DRO and a Beefier 3HP Motor,(also as Ordered).
    Comes with a D1-4 Camlock Spindle Nose, MT5 Taper with 40 mm Bore and a MT3 Tailstock
    Weighing in at around 620 Kgs we are sure it is solid to well serve our needs.
    We already have both Sets of Metric and Imperial Collets and this Machine will be perfect for the jobs we intend.

    Now that U talk about a MATADOR, there is a VS1 one in Holland with a DRO and not much in Tooling.
    The Seller will change the DRAW BAR to 5C, at a Price obviously.
    It is in pretty good nick as we had been informed and from what one could see of the BED pics, albeit with the usual Body paint scrapes, which may require re-do.
    The Seller ran a test piece and came up with 0.02mm run out on a 250mm bar length. (We are presently getting this from our 8 year old 14 x 40 also Taiwan made "Tool Room Lathe")

    The question now begs, which to settle on ??

    We don't want a Rolls just 'cos it is a Rolls and nurse it as a "Museum Piece", without getting the run for our money. We require a "work horse" as one, we are not trained machinists and two, we must be able to easily understand and operate the Controls on the machine.
    Add to this quandary the age of the Machine and availability of Spares. The Euro, which has no specific Country, is suddenly stronger than the almighty Dollar. So there is no such thing as a "free Lunch".
    And we don't need "keep up with the Jones"

    Akin to the REVOLVER-AUTO Debate, this would aptly suit that other thread on Imports versus Local Machines.
    We are keen to hear Your thoughts, and if some one is prepared to chime in as well.
    Thanks "a mill" in advance. No pun intended !!
    aRM
     
  18. Ray C

    Ray C United States Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Well, I'm not George but you did mention that others' opinions were OK...

    This is the age-old question of old vs. new and there is no right or wrong answer. I happen to like the looks and feel of older machines, especially 1980s vintage Leblonds and Sheldons. They tend to weigh more (which really helps) and have better craftsmanship. Sadly though, most have seen a lot of use. Parts are often not available and are not standard sizes thus, repairs can be costly. Chuck spindles are usually L0 or L1 type and they are harder to find and more costly. Finally, if the critical surfaces are worn, you must either develop the skill (scraping) to repair it yourself or, have it done professionally which could involve 2-3 weeks (or more) of labor -which understandably, is not inexpensive. Having it done professionally also means freight charges to/from the restoration service.

    New production machines purchased from a dealer means you have a neck to choke if it has flaws upon arrival. It's been my experience though that most higher end machines these days are pretty darn good. As the machine ages, parts are generally easy to get. They do not contain unusual size gears or other mechanisms and, many brands often are made of the same parts -and thus, the supply choices are favorable.

    In the back of my mind, I know that sometime not too far from now, I'll add another lathe to the shop. It will be larger and more accurate/precise than the one I have now. I will absolutely keep the one I have as it is perfectly good and highly functional. I've already decided to go with a new production because, the risks as mentioned above of purchasing an older one -most likely from an unknown seller, are too high. I've spent hundreds of hours reparing and reconditioning some of the older equipment I once owned.... Been there, Done that. Yes, it can be satisfying and I personally feel those who do it regularly are highly skilled and are to be commended for their abilities. It is however, a specialization that I personally am not interested in embarking on. I make money doing fabrications, repairs and prototypes of various parts and components and I'm starting to branch-out into CNC. I simply don't have the time to embark on learning another highly specialized skill.

    I reiterate... This is my personal choice and set of circumstances and it's entirely possible, acceptable and totally understandable that others have different views. -There is no right or wrong! I've done my best to relay my feelings -and hope I've done it fairly and inoffensively. In any event, I feel I've outlined the key factors involved in one's personal decision about purchasing a new or old machine.

    Ray



     
  19. george wilson

    george wilson United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The Matador I had was not too long between centers. Maybe 24" and a smaller swing than 14". Either a 10"or a 12". I did not actually use the Weiler because it needed a phase converter. I was temporarily storing it in my shop at the museum.

    One thing that was not the most pleasing thing to me was the Weiler nose took a special European fitting,not the more usual D4 or D5 which would have been commonly available over here. Plus,the fitting was not real quick to change chucks with. I can't recall the name of the fitting. You had to undo 3 or 4 bolts to change chucks. Maybe it is available where you are. No doubt the Weiler would have made as beautiful finishes as the Hardinge. And,It would cut many more threads. This was years ago,and I've forgotten many details by now.

    It also had no gap. I have had a few profitable jobs where I needed the gap that my Taiwan made 16" lathe does have. I made $600.00 in 1 day with my 24" swing in the gap. I was offered $900.00,but it was from a friend,and I did not want to be what I considered overpaid for what was a pretty simple job. I DID have to remove my gap piece for the FIRST TIME. Fortunately,it did go back flawlessly!!! Often they DO NOT!!

    I'd have kept the Weiler if I'd had the knowledge that I'd soon be moving,and would have another shop. I'd have kept it because it was a very high quality lathe,and had special features I liked. I have 2 other lathes,the Hardinge HLVH,and my 16" x 40" lathe.

    I do most of my work on the Hardinge,but when I need a bigger lathe,I have one.

    If I had to only have 1 lathe,I'd have to go with the larger lathe because there is no substitute for a larger lathe when you need it. Therefore,I'd advise you to go with the 14" x 40" lathe if you will have only 1 machine,though the thought of losing a smaller,high quality lathe hurts my soul!!!

    If you do get the Weiler,you can get a manual from Weiler,or from Tony Griffiths Engineering in England. I know because I traded him my Weiler manual. He makes great copies of hundreds of manuals. It will likely cost you at least $125.00. I had LOST my Matador manual,and had to order one from Weiler to give to the guy I sold my Matador to. The IDIOTS sent the blasted manual by COURIER,which I did not ask them to do. It cost me a bunch of money,too! I'd get the manual from Weiler,BUT,make sure you tell them to NOT send it by courier. Oh,yes,to finish my story,of course I FOUND the original manual a few weeks later. I came out o.k.,though,because Tony Griffiths did not have a Matador manual,and traded me a Deckel pantograph(which I STILL haven't put to use due to lack of tooling). He would have sold the Deckel manual for $125.00.

    So,I am forced by practical concerns to say go with the larger lathe if you are making a living with it. You won't have to pass up jobs,or buy mega expensive tooling.

    P.S.: Be careful how much you run the Taiwan made lathe at 2500 RPM. They almost always have oil just slung about in their geared heads,no forced oil feeding. We wore out the bearings in the slow speed range on a Taiwan made lathe we had at work. They weren't apparently getting much oil slung on them! We did a fair amount of larger work on that lathe,and ran it slow quite a lot of the time. I have thought about installing a small oil pump in my 16" lathe,with copper tubes to the bearings.
     
  20. ARM

    ARM South Africa Active User Active Member

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    RAY
    At the outset let me say this could not have been said better.
    We concur with numerous of Your comments stated above, which we have taken the liberty of making Bolder as these apply most directly to our circumstances.
    You have now given us the necessary conviction to confidently embark on the correct choice and proceed with the perfect applicable Deal for ourselves.
    Thanks a stack again
    LORD BLESS
    aRM
     
  21. ARM

    ARM South Africa Active User Active Member

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    Hello GEORGE
    This is just as important an alternate to what RAY had to say.
    Divergent thoughts and opinions nourish and engender practical knowledge.
    An errata in Your comments above, we already own a nice 14 x 40" Lathe.
    The prospective one we are talking about is a 12 x 24" - so that changes Your line of suggestions a bit.
    Will remember what U say on running at MAXIMUM SPEED.
    Is there any way we could check and confirm how our GEARED HEAD's are fed OIL ???
    Would be something worth learning about, when we do get our machine, IA.
    Much appreciated and
    LORD BLESS
    aRM
     
  22. george wilson

    george wilson United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Usually Taiwan made lathes are splash oiled unless they are very expensive. Also,it is usual for the type of headstock oiling system to be mentioned in their descriptions of the lathe. Nearly certainly yours will be splash lubricated. If you already have a 14" X 40" lathe,the Matador could be a good investment. The Matador does have a hardened bed. Mine was in perfect shape,and I wish I'd never sold it. At the time,though,I had no prospect of having space to use it. Check on the nose of your Matador to see what type fitting is needed for chucks,face plates,etc.. Mine had a German type nose.
     
  23. ARM

    ARM South Africa Active User Active Member

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    Hello GEORGE

    Well it's exactly as U say. The Catalogue clearly states ......."lubrication worked by SPLASHING LUBRICANT".
    This has put a damper on our Plans.
    We'd like U to see the Matador details as well.
    Will try and attach the link, hope we get it right first time.

    http://www.werktuigen.nl/advertenties/preview/130156/weiler-matador-vs1.html

    The Seller from Holland is quite active on the "other" Forum and writes English well.
    Don't think he'd renege or give us his sales promo for one solitary, low cost deal.
    Do let us know what U think of this machine.
    We will hold our decision for U.
    Thanks and
    LORD BLESS
    aRM
     
  24. Ray C

    Ray C United States Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I was very curious about issues with splash oil systems and asked Matt if any of his Chinese or Taiwanese lathes ever had a problem. After many years of selling thousands of lathes, he has never had an oil related problem with any lathe he's ever sold.

    He did have one problem due to a broken gear and the user admits, he dropped a bolt in the gearbox -and it went BANG.

    Thousands of lathes... not one single lubrication related problem.

    Matt does not recomend using a lathe with a VFD and setting the motor to very low speeds for extended periods. This is in-line with my recommendations of always keeping the VFD within (approximately) 45 to 60 Hz. Even at that, it would take a very long time to cause any damage. Also, use the proper viscosity oil for the climate of your area.

    Modern day lathes have very effective splash systems. -And believe me, never run your machine without the lid on. You will be covered in oil in a split second.


    Ray
     
  25. ARM

    ARM South Africa Active User Active Member

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    RAY
    Much appreciate the research on this.
    "Tis good to listen to someone who has sold Lathes almost all his Life.

    What does concern us a bit though is whether the SPINDLE BEARINGS would last the distance on this "VARIABLE-SPEED" driven Machine. U see, the Manufacturers stated top speed with the INVERTER is 2'000 RPM. We asked for this to be increased to 2'500 RPM with an similar increase in size of the MOTOR from 2 HP to 3HP. They agreed, obviously at a Price. However, we really don't know if that is what we will really get at the end of the day. We need the extra "Voom" more for very light finish cuts and POLISHING. Our present 14 x 40" running at 1'800 RPM top speed, does give us very satisfying Finishes, although it seems like we are pushing things a bit when it comes to continued POLISHING at these maximum speeds. We are working quite a bit on S/S and Ti and these Steels can be rather demanding both on machine and Labour.

    Come to think of it, most of the top Branded HIGH SPEED Machines like the Hardinge copies ie., Eisen, Sharp and Cyclematic including the UK old stalwarts Colchester and Harrison are all today made in TAIWAN. So for us, there just might be a scare of the unknown factor lurking like a phantom.
    Although this manufacturer we are dealing with may not be a top end Machine Supplier, we are sure, they are however exposed to the Standards of their competition and contemporaries in their own Country.
    It all might just get together evenly.
    Would like to know what U think.
    Thanks again, graciously.
    LORD BLESS
    aRM
     
  26. Ray C

    Ray C United States Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    A couple thoughts...

    Over the past 10 years (approximately) all the most serious flaws with lathes coming from Taiwan and China have been resolved. In the 1950's, Leblond, which is a very good lathe had problems with a feature called "Servo Shift". In time, the problem was resolved. It's the same thing going on here. Almost any lathe that is not a low end hobbyist machine is actually pretty good. The basic designs are good but quality control must be closely observed. Some brands of the same model are better than others and it depends if the factory was instructed to "make them real fast" or "pay attention to quality".

    Most bench lathes have a top speed of about 1800 RPMs and some will go up to 2200. For bigger lathes, people usually work on bigger parts that have higher surface speeds and therefore 1800 RPM is usually fast enough. Most commercial chucks (3 Jaw and 4 Jaw) that are between 6" and 8" are only rated for speeds up to 2500 RPM. Collet chucks can spin much faster but can only hold smaller parts and they are more commonly found on smaller lathes that have higher speeds.

    This is what the inside of most lathes looks like now (see below). You can see that most of the gears are under oil. Even the spindle bearings are half-way covered by oil. Nothing is going to go dry there. This is a Taiwanese gearbox and the design is very similar for many others -just bigger or smaller depending on the machine.


    PM-1340GT-Headstock-Gears2-245x164.jpg

    Here is a lathe from Taiwan. -Very high end machine. The spindle has 3 support bearings. It is not cheap but, I know these are available from dealers all over the world. I don't know what your financial budget is but, this machine is about $25,000 (USC). If you want more information about it let me know. Since this is a Hobby Machine website, I don't often discuss the high-end professional equipment but, I have some knowledge of what the best machines out there are and who makes them and what factory they come from. The machine here is as good as they come. It will go head-to-head with any big brand. The factory that makes these also makes the lathes for all the big brands -and this is their "house version". Top Of The Line Machine...

    LA-1744 Whole Machine.jpg

    Ray



    LA-1744 Whole Machine.jpg
     

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  27. george wilson

    george wilson United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Yes,copies of the Hardinge HLVH are made in Taiwan. They are also very expensive. You get what you pay for in the end. Even at the high prices the HLVH clones sell for,I doubt you'd hear a professional machinist say they are really the equal of a USA HLVH. After all,the HLVH was selling for about $65,000.00 when they quit making them.
     
  28. 09kevin

    09kevin United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I would buy a Mazak 730 5axis like the one I program and run at work, I would also need a bigger shop but if I won the lottery that shouldn't be a problem:roflmao:

    variaxis-730-5x.jpg

    variaxis-730-5x.jpg
     
  29. Ray C

    Ray C United States Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Oooo, that looks pretty nifty. I bet it cost more than my house... Curious: What's the typical lifetime of something like that before it needs significant servicing? -Just curious. -I really don't know too much about machines like that. -Still stuck in the early 18'th century...


    Ray

     
  30. 09kevin

    09kevin United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Ray,

    Not really sure how long these machines will last. We haven't had any major machine related issues with any of them, The 2 oldest machines are 6 years old I think.

    Kevin
     

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