If money was no problem, what would you get??

The Matador I had was not too long between centers. Maybe 24" and a smaller swing than 14". Either a 10"or a 12". I did not actually use the Weiler because it needed a phase converter. I was temporarily storing it in my shop at the museum.

One thing that was not the most pleasing thing to me was the Weiler nose took a special European fitting,not the more usual D4 or D5 which would have been commonly available over here. Plus,the fitting was not real quick to change chucks with. I can't recall the name of the fitting. You had to undo 3 or 4 bolts to change chucks. Maybe it is available where you are. No doubt the Weiler would have made as beautiful finishes as the Hardinge. And,It would cut many more threads. This was years ago,and I've forgotten many details by now.

It also had no gap. I have had a few profitable jobs where I needed the gap that my Taiwan made 16" lathe does have. I made $600.00 in 1 day with my 24" swing in the gap.

I'd have kept the Weiler if I'd had the knowledge that I'd soon be moving,and would have another shop. I'd have kept it because it was a very high quality lathe,and had special features I liked. I have 2 other lathes,the Hardinge HLVH,and my 16" x 40" lathe.

I do most of my work on the Hardinge,but when I need a bigger lathe,I have one.

If I had to only have 1 lathe,I'd have to go with the larger lathe because there is no substitute for a larger lathe when you need it. Therefore,I'd advise you to go with the 14" x 40" lathe if you will have only 1 machine,though the thought of losing a smaller,high quality lathe hurts my soul!!!

If you do get the Weiler,you can get a manual from Weiler,or from Tony Griffiths Engineering in England. I know because I traded him my Weiler manual. He makes great copies of hundreds of manuals. It will likely cost you at least $125.00. I had LOST my Matador manual,and had to order one from Weiler to give to the guy I sold my Matador to. The IDIOTS sent the blasted manual by COURIER,which I did not ask them to do. It cost me a bunch of money,too! I'd get the manual from Weiler,BUT,make sure you tell them to NOT send it by courier. Oh,yes,to finish my story,of course I FOUND the original manual a few weeks later. I came out o.k.,though,because Tony Griffiths did not have a Matador manual,and traded me a Deckel pantograph(which I STILL haven't put to use due to lack of tooling). He would have sold the Deckel manual for $125.00.

So,I am forced by practical concerns to say go with the larger lathe if you are making a living with it. You won't have to pass up jobs,or buy mega expensive tooling.

P.S.: Be careful how much you run the Taiwan made lathe at 2500 RPM. They almost always have oil just slung about in their geared heads,no forced oil feeding. We wore out the bearings in the slow speed range on a Taiwan made lathe we had at work. They weren't apparently getting much oil slung on them! We did a fair amount of larger work on that lathe,and ran it slow quite a lot of the time. I have thought about installing a small oil pump in my 16" lathe,with copper tubes to the bearings.

Hello GEORGE
This is just as important an alternate to what RAY had to say.
Divergent thoughts and opinions nourish and engender practical knowledge.
An errata in Your comments above, we already own a nice 14 x 40" Lathe.
The prospective one we are talking about is a 12 x 24" - so that changes Your line of suggestions a bit.
Will remember what U say on running at MAXIMUM SPEED.
Is there any way we could check and confirm how our GEARED HEAD's are fed OIL ???
Would be something worth learning about, when we do get our machine, IA.
Much appreciated and
LORD BLESS
aRM
 
Usually Taiwan made lathes are splash oiled unless they are very expensive. Also,it is usual for the type of headstock oiling system to be mentioned in their descriptions of the lathe. Nearly certainly yours will be splash lubricated. If you already have a 14" X 40" lathe,the Matador could be a good investment. The Matador does have a hardened bed. Mine was in perfect shape,and I wish I'd never sold it. At the time,though,I had no prospect of having space to use it. Check on the nose of your Matador to see what type fitting is needed for chucks,face plates,etc.. Mine had a German type nose.
 
Usually Taiwan made lathes are splash oiled unless they are very expensive. Also,it is usual for the type of headstock oiling system to be mentioned in their descriptions of the lathe. Nearly certainly yours will be splash lubricated. If you already have a 14" X 40" lathe,the Matador could be a good investment. The Matador does have a hardened bed. Mine was in perfect shape,and I wish I'd never sold it. At the time,though,I had no prospect of having space to use it. Check on the nose of your Matador to see what type fitting is needed for chucks,face plates,etc.. Mine had a German type nose.

Hello GEORGE

Well it's exactly as U say. The Catalogue clearly states ......."lubrication worked by SPLASHING LUBRICANT".
This has put a damper on our Plans.
We'd like U to see the Matador details as well.
Will try and attach the link, hope we get it right first time.

http://www.werktuigen.nl/advertenties/preview/130156/weiler-matador-vs1.html

The Seller from Holland is quite active on the "other" Forum and writes English well.
Don't think he'd renege or give us his sales promo for one solitary, low cost deal.
Do let us know what U think of this machine.
We will hold our decision for U.
Thanks and
LORD BLESS
aRM
 
I was very curious about issues with splash oil systems and asked Matt if any of his Chinese or Taiwanese lathes ever had a problem. After many years of selling thousands of lathes, he has never had an oil related problem with any lathe he's ever sold.

He did have one problem due to a broken gear and the user admits, he dropped a bolt in the gearbox -and it went BANG.

Thousands of lathes... not one single lubrication related problem.

Matt does not recomend using a lathe with a VFD and setting the motor to very low speeds for extended periods. This is in-line with my recommendations of always keeping the VFD within (approximately) 45 to 60 Hz. Even at that, it would take a very long time to cause any damage. Also, use the proper viscosity oil for the climate of your area.

Modern day lathes have very effective splash systems. -And believe me, never run your machine without the lid on. You will be covered in oil in a split second.


Ray
 
I was very curious about issues with splash oil systems and asked Matt if any of his Chinese or Taiwanese lathes ever had a problem. After many years of selling thousands of lathes, he has never had an oil related problem with any lathe he's ever sold.

He did have one problem due to a broken gear and the user admits, he dropped a bolt in the gearbox -and it went BANG.

Thousands of lathes... not one single lubrication related problem.

Matt does not recommend using a lathe with a VFD and setting the motor to very low speeds for extended periods. This is in-line with my recommendations of always keeping the VFD within (approximately) 45 to 60 Hz. Even at that, it would take a very long time to cause any damage. Also, use the proper viscosity oil for the climate of your area.

Modern day lathes have very effective splash systems. -And believe me, never run your machine without the lid on. You will be covered in oil in a split second.


Ray

RAY
Much appreciate the research on this.
"Tis good to listen to someone who has sold Lathes almost all his Life.

What does concern us a bit though is whether the SPINDLE BEARINGS would last the distance on this "VARIABLE-SPEED" driven Machine. U see, the Manufacturers stated top speed with the INVERTER is 2'000 RPM. We asked for this to be increased to 2'500 RPM with an similar increase in size of the MOTOR from 2 HP to 3HP. They agreed, obviously at a Price. However, we really don't know if that is what we will really get at the end of the day. We need the extra "Voom" more for very light finish cuts and POLISHING. Our present 14 x 40" running at 1'800 RPM top speed, does give us very satisfying Finishes, although it seems like we are pushing things a bit when it comes to continued POLISHING at these maximum speeds. We are working quite a bit on S/S and Ti and these Steels can be rather demanding both on machine and Labour.

Come to think of it, most of the top Branded HIGH SPEED Machines like the Hardinge copies ie., Eisen, Sharp and Cyclematic including the UK old stalwarts Colchester and Harrison are all today made in TAIWAN. So for us, there just might be a scare of the unknown factor lurking like a phantom.
Although this manufacturer we are dealing with may not be a top end Machine Supplier, we are sure, they are however exposed to the Standards of their competition and contemporaries in their own Country.
It all might just get together evenly.
Would like to know what U think.
Thanks again, graciously.
LORD BLESS
aRM
 
A couple thoughts...

Over the past 10 years (approximately) all the most serious flaws with lathes coming from Taiwan and China have been resolved. In the 1950's, Leblond, which is a very good lathe had problems with a feature called "Servo Shift". In time, the problem was resolved. It's the same thing going on here. Almost any lathe that is not a low end hobbyist machine is actually pretty good. The basic designs are good but quality control must be closely observed. Some brands of the same model are better than others and it depends if the factory was instructed to "make them real fast" or "pay attention to quality".

Most bench lathes have a top speed of about 1800 RPMs and some will go up to 2200. For bigger lathes, people usually work on bigger parts that have higher surface speeds and therefore 1800 RPM is usually fast enough. Most commercial chucks (3 Jaw and 4 Jaw) that are between 6" and 8" are only rated for speeds up to 2500 RPM. Collet chucks can spin much faster but can only hold smaller parts and they are more commonly found on smaller lathes that have higher speeds.

This is what the inside of most lathes looks like now (see below). You can see that most of the gears are under oil. Even the spindle bearings are half-way covered by oil. Nothing is going to go dry there. This is a Taiwanese gearbox and the design is very similar for many others -just bigger or smaller depending on the machine.


PM-1340GT-Headstock-Gears2-245x164.jpg

Here is a lathe from Taiwan. -Very high end machine. The spindle has 3 support bearings. It is not cheap but, I know these are available from dealers all over the world. I don't know what your financial budget is but, this machine is about $25,000 (USC). If you want more information about it let me know. Since this is a Hobby Machine website, I don't often discuss the high-end professional equipment but, I have some knowledge of what the best machines out there are and who makes them and what factory they come from. The machine here is as good as they come. It will go head-to-head with any big brand. The factory that makes these also makes the lathes for all the big brands -and this is their "house version". Top Of The Line Machine...

LA-1744 Whole Machine.jpg

Ray



RAY
Much appreciate the research on this.
"Tis good to listen to someone who has sold Lathes almost all his Life.

What does concern us a bit though is whether the SPINDLE BEARINGS would last the distance on this "VARIABLE-SPEED" driven Machine. U see, the Manufacturers stated top speed with the INVERTER is 2'000 RPM. We asked for this to be increased to 2'500 RPM with an similar increase in size of the MOTOR from 2 HP to 3HP. They agreed, obviously at a Price. However, we really don't know if that is what we will really get at the end of the day. We need the extra "Voom" more for very light finish cuts and POLISHING. Our present 14 x 40" running at 1'800 RPM top speed, does give us very satisfying Finishes, although it seems like we are pushing things a bit when it comes to continued POLISHING at these maximum speeds. We are working quite a bit on S/S and Ti and these Steels can be rather demanding both on machine and Labour.

Come to think of it, most of the top Branded HIGH SPEED Machines like the Hardinge copies ie., Eisen, Sharp and Cyclematic including the UK old stalwarts Colchester and Harrison are all today made in TAIWAN. So for us, there just might be a scare of the unknown factor lurking like a phantom.
Although this manufacturer we are dealing with may not be a top end Machine Supplier, we are sure, they are however exposed to the Standards of their competition and contemporaries in their own Country.
It all might just get together evenly.
Would like to know what U think.
Thanks again, graciously.
LORD BLESS
aRM

LA-1744 Whole Machine.jpg

PM-1340GT-Headstock-Gears2-245x164.jpg
 
Yes,copies of the Hardinge HLVH are made in Taiwan. They are also very expensive. You get what you pay for in the end. Even at the high prices the HLVH clones sell for,I doubt you'd hear a professional machinist say they are really the equal of a USA HLVH. After all,the HLVH was selling for about $65,000.00 when they quit making them.
 
I would buy a Mazak 730 5axis like the one I program and run at work, I would also need a bigger shop but if I won the lottery that shouldn't be a problem:roflmao:

variaxis-730-5x.jpg

variaxis-730-5x.jpg
 
Oooo, that looks pretty nifty. I bet it cost more than my house... Curious: What's the typical lifetime of something like that before it needs significant servicing? -Just curious. -I really don't know too much about machines like that. -Still stuck in the early 18'th century...


Ray

I would buy a Mazak 730 5axis like the one I program and run at work, I would also need a bigger shop but if I won the lottery that shouldn't be a problem:roflmao:

View attachment 61651
 
Ray,

Not really sure how long these machines will last. We haven't had any major machine related issues with any of them, The 2 oldest machines are 6 years old I think.

Kevin
 
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