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Is This Wired For 110 Or 220?

TomS

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#1
I've had my lathe for several years and have been running it on 110v since I got it. As I'm not electrically inclined I asked a neighbor to help me wire my lathe for 220v operation. The wiring went without a hitch except that it had more power running on 110v than it does on 220v. With a shaft in the chuck and the lathe running about 300 rpm I can grip the shaft and slow down the rpm considerably. Obviously this lack of power also shows up when turning. My neighbor swears up and down it's wired for 220v.

I've attached the wiring diagrams for the main control box and for the motor terminal box. The picture is the low/high (110/220) voltage wiring diagram on the inside of the motor terminal box cover.

I could start probing around with my multimeter but I thought I would consult the resident electrical gurus before making matters worse.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Tom S.

20161018_125842_resized.jpg
 

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jim18655

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#2
We'll need to see how the motor wires are connected to determine if it's connected properly for the voltage. Looks like the reversing switch will also need to be reconnected for 220 volts.
Did you rewire the motor control box?
 
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TomS

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#3
We'll need to see how the motor wires are connected to determine if it's connected properly for the voltage. Looks like the reversing switch will also need to be reconnected for 220 volts.
Did you rewire the motor control box?
Thanks for taking a look. The motor lead connections are shown in the attachment "Lathe Motor Terminal Box". Not sure what you mean by the reversing switch needs to be reconnected for 220v. The motor runs in forward and reverse as it's wired now. The only wiring I've done is I recently replaced the left side contactor. What the previous owner did I have no idea. I looked at the electrical box diagram and realized the one I attached is for 110v operation. The only difference is the transformer inputs are H1 and H4 for 220v operation which is how it is currently wired. The X1 and X3 terminals feed the contactor coils.

Let me know if you need more info.

Tom S.
 

master53yoda

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#4
did he connect wire 2 and 3 he may only have one winding running, we really need to see how the motor itself is wired and the reversing switch will need to be rewired,
 

TomS

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#5
did he connect wire 2 and 3 he may only have one winding running, we really need to see how the motor itself is wired and the reversing switch will need to be rewired,
Here's a picture of the motor terminal block. The attachment in my original post has the corresponding diagram. I'll do my best to explain how the wires are connected.

The black wire connected to the upper left terminal goes to "U" on the terminal strip in the main electrical box. The yellow wire directly below is the #3 motor wire. The red wire below the yellow wire goes to "M5" on the terminal strip. The black wire connected to the lower left terminal goes to "V" on the terminal strip. The wire connected to the upper right terminal is the #4 motor wire. The blue and red motor wires below the white wire are #A2 (Red) and #2 (Blue). The third (Red) wire down on the right is #A1 motor wire. The black wire connected to the lower right terminal is the #A1 motor wire. Did this answer your questions?
20161018_125825_resized.jpg
 

master53yoda

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#6
it appears to me from the wiring diagrams from the lathe and the picture of the motor to be correct, do you have 240 volts on the 2 black wires V and U when it is running that should be 240 volts if not that could be the problem. The diagram for the lathe electrical box doesn't show the switching that is going on so that part is a guess. Also insulate the unconnected wire as it could be hot from the internal switching

art B
 

TomS

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#7
it appears to me from the wiring diagrams from the lathe and the picture of the motor to be correct, do you have 240 volts on the 2 black wires V and U when it is running that should be 240 volts if not that could be the problem. The diagram for the lathe electrical box doesn't show the switching that is going on so that part is a guess. Also insulate the unconnected wire as it could be hot from the internal switching

art B
I'll check the voltage in the morning and report back. For info terminals 1 thru 5 feed the front control panel which has the on/off switch, jog, for/rev switch, and power on indicator light.

Thanks,

Tom S.
 

jim18655

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#8
Motor connections look correct. I'd like to see the 220v control panel diagram.
 

TomS

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#9
Motor connections look correct. I'd like to see the 220v control panel diagram.
The lathe didn't come with a manual so the only 220/110 volt diagram I have is the one attached to the original post. I made it up to have as a reference when I changed out the contactor.

Tom S.
 

TomS

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#10
Checked voltages at all the terminals in the motor pecker head. First I verified that I had 220v coming into the main electrical box at terminals R and S. With the power switch off these are the readings I got in the pecker head:

110v between upper left terminal and A1
110v between second terminal down on left and A1
No power between third terminal down on left and any of the four terminals on the right
110v between bottom left and A1

With the power switch on I get the same readings. I also took voltage readings with power to the forward switch and to the reverse switch (terminals 4 and 5). If that is helpful information I will post it.

My gut is telling me that the disconnected red wire (M6 at the terminal strip) needs to be connected to the second terminal down on the left side. Again, I'm not an electrician just saying that this wire should be connected somewhere.

Tom S.
 

master53yoda

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#11
do you have 240 volts on the 2 black wires V and U when it is running.
art B
The unused red wire is part of the reversing in 110 VAC low voltage, in High voltage is is not used. but could still be hot .

the readings need to be wire to wire not wire to ground.

Art B
 

TomS

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#12
The unused red wire is part of the reversing in 110 VAC low voltage, in High voltage is is not used. but could still be hot .

the readings need to be wire to wire not wire to ground.

Art B
Yes, I have 240v across U and V.

Tom S.
 

jim18655

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#13
Just for reference, when you're measuring 240 Volts if you go to ground you could be reading the voltage flowing through the motor from one of the phase wires and not necessarily both of the phase conductors. Same as checking for a blown fuse. If the B phase fuse is out then the A phase power will be on the top and bottom of the A fuse to ground and the bottom of the B phase to ground. Check for a blown fuse from top to bottom on the same fuse. Zero volts means the fuse is good and system voltage indicates a blown fuse.
Can you hear the centrifugal open and close when you start and stop the motor? It must be closed or the motor won't start. I'm not sure what would happen if if doesn't open at 75% speed. I know the start winding should only be energized less than a minute or it will burn out.
 

TomS

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#14
Just for reference, when you're measuring 240 Volts if you go to ground you could be reading the voltage flowing through the motor from one of the phase wires and not necessarily both of the phase conductors. Same as checking for a blown fuse. If the B phase fuse is out then the A phase power will be on the top and bottom of the A fuse to ground and the bottom of the B phase to ground. Check for a blown fuse from top to bottom on the same fuse. Zero volts means the fuse is good and system voltage indicates a blown fuse.
Can you hear the centrifugal open and close when you start and stop the motor? It must be closed or the motor won't start. I'm not sure what would happen if if doesn't open at 75% speed. I know the start winding should only be energized less than a minute or it will burn out.
Thanks for the fuse testing info. As you can tell I don't know much about electricity other than it hurts when you touch it.

I can't hear the centrifugal switch when I start the motor because of the the contactors making up. I've run the motor for extended periods with no problems. It just doesn't have much torque.

Tom S.
 

jim18655

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#15
You could wire the motor direct to the 240 supply and test the motor torque. That would at least determine whether the problem is in the motor or the control panel.
 

TomS

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#16
You could wire the motor direct to the 240 supply and test the motor torque. That would at least determine whether the problem is in the motor or the control panel.
Sounds like a good idea. Which motor wires do I connect to the black wire and which to the white wire? I've got the green wire dialed in. LOL

Tom S.
 

markba633csi

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#17
Tom check that you really have 220 volts between motor wires #1 and #4, Then check that #2 and #3 are connected together, per the diagram. One of those two things must be wrong, it seems to me. That motor should have tons of torque. Be careful too, of course.
Mark S.
 

markba633csi

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#18
I should like to mention, the absolute safest way to troubleshoot a problem like this would be with the power completely OFF, using an ohmmeter or continuity tester, lifting wires one by one and taking readings. I don't like to recommend testing live circuits and in fact I try to avoid doing it myself even though I have worked with electricity for years. My Dad dropped a screwdriver across 220 once when I was a kid, and it really made an impression on me. It certainly made an impression on him LOL
Mark S.
 

TomS

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#19
Tom check that you really have 220 volts between motor wires #1 and #4, Then check that #2 and #3 are connected together, per the diagram. One of those two things must be wrong, it seems to me. That motor should have tons of torque. Be careful too, of course.
Mark S.
I'll check it in the morning.

Tom S.
 

master53yoda

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#20
I
You could wire the motor direct to the 240 supply and test the motor torque. That would at least determine whether the problem is in the motor or the control panel.
It appears that the start circuit wiring is coming from the lathe wiring it may not start going direct to the motor with 220, if it doesn't. Do not leave the power on for more then a second or you could burn out the run winding.

I have made the assumption that you have tried the lathe in both directions and that it starts both ways.

If three and two are not connected you would not get any movement but just a "humm" from the start winding.

Just a question, what speed are you trying to run this at , is it belt driven and is it possible that the lack of torque is slippage in the belts etc. From everything you have shown it looks to me that it should be OK. Electrically Maybe ULMA DOC will see something we are missing, you might PM him and ask him to look at it. This may need a new set of eyes.

Art B
 

TomS

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#21
I


It appears that the start circuit wiring is coming from the lathe wiring it may not start going direct to the motor with 220, if it doesn't. Do not leave the power on for more then a second or you could burn out the run winding.

I have made the assumption that you have tried the lathe in both directions and that it starts both ways.

If three and two are not connected you would not get any movement but just a "humm" from the start winding.

Just a question, what speed are you trying to run this at , is it belt driven and is it possible that the lack of torque is slippage in the belts etc. From everything you have shown it looks to me that it should be OK. Electrically Maybe ULMA DOC will see something we are missing, you might PM him and ask him to look at it. This may need a new set of eyes.

Art B
I've been running it wired this way for a few weeks now. Runs in both directions just not much torque so I don't think it's running on the start circuit. It's not belt slippage because I can hear the motor slow down when taking a cut. In fact first thing in the morning when the head stock oil is cold it takes as much as 30 seconds to get up to top speed. As the oil warms up it ramps up much quicker.

Edit: I run in in the low range which gives me a top speed of about 800 rpm. Taking a .030" DOC with a feed rate of .008" per revolution on 2" mild steel round just about stalls the motor. Didn't have this problem when it was wired for 110v service.
Tom S.
 

jim18655

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#22
I


It appears that the start circuit wiring is coming from the lathe wiring it may not start going direct to the motor with 220, if it doesn't. Do not leave the power on for more then a second or you could burn out the run winding.



Art B
Start circuit doesn't come from the control panel - only the direction is determined from the panel. Centrifugal switch is shown on motor connection diagram. If the motor is connected per the diagram he'll be fine testing it
 

master53yoda

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#23
what I was seeing in the wiring diagrams was that the power to terminal A1 for the start winding was coming in from the control panel, if for some reason it was going through a relay it wouldn't necessarily have continuous power and it wouldn't start.

On the torque question i was trying to cover all possibilities. What was the reasoning for going to 220 if 110 was working OK.
 

TomS

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#24
what I was seeing in the wiring diagrams was that the power to terminal A1 for the start winding was coming in from the control panel, if for some reason it was going through a relay it wouldn't necessarily have continuous power and it wouldn't start.

On the torque question i was trying to cover all possibilities. What was the reasoning for going to 220 if 110 was working OK.
I went with 220v because I wanted to move my lathe a bit further away from my CNC mill. Needed a bit more room to maneuver. As it was I had a long cord running to the nearest 110v outlet. Moving the lathe put it closer to a 220v outlet. Changing wiring in the pecker head was a lot simpler than making up a longer cord. Or so I thought.

Tom S.
 

master53yoda

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#26
I'll physically check the connections but according to my wiring diagram #2, #3, and #A2 are connected together.

Tom S.
From what I can see in the pictures etc. they are connected correctly, for it to start and run it almost needs to be wired right, so maybe its time to look at other possibilities besides the motor wiring.

Have you run anything else on that 220Vac plug. It might be possible that the wiring to the plug has problems and the voltage under load is dropping way down, the only way that would show up is voltage checking either during startup or under load.

art B
 

TomS

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#27
As I said in my original post I did install a new reversing contactor at the same time as I changed over to 220v. I'm going to check to make sure the wiring is per the wiring diagram but could there be something there, e.g. internal circuits different than the original contactor?

Tom S.
 

master53yoda

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#28
As I said in my original post I did install a new reversing contactor at the same time as I changed over to 220v. I'm going to check to make sure the wiring is per the wiring diagram but could there be something there, e.g. internal circuits different than the original contactor?

Tom S.
its possible, but because it is starting in either direction and running the wiring for 240 almost has to be right. The only other thing I can think of is if the start switch in the motor isn't opening, the motor would get very hot if that was the case and draw a lot of current. It would also be a major coincidence for that to go bad at the same time as the change in wiring.

Art b
 

TomS

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#29
I verified that #2, #3 and #A2 are connected together. I also went back over the electric box wiring, specifically the contactors, because of changing out the reversing contactor at the same time as changing over to 220v operation. I did find something but not sure it resolves the issue at hand.

Look at the revised diagram attached below. You note that the transformer wiring is different. This change reflects the change from 110v input power to 220v input power. That's OK and understandable. Take a look at the left (reversing) contactor. Note the two jumpers. These weren't on the diagram that was attached to my first post. I don't think this is the problem as the jumpers allow input power to flow from the reversing contactor to the forward contactor. Am I off base on this?

Tom S.
 

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TomS

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#30
From what I can see in the pictures etc. they are connected correctly, for it to start and run it almost needs to be wired right, so maybe its time to look at other possibilities besides the motor wiring.

Have you run anything else on that 220Vac plug. It might be possible that the wiring to the plug has problems and the voltage under load is dropping way down, the only way that would show up is voltage checking either during startup or under load.

art B
The lathe is plugged into my welder outlet. It's single use though. I can't weld and run the lathe at the same time. I'll check voltage under load and see what happens.

Tom S.
 
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