Looking to move up in lathe size from my 1236T to a 1440TL-V or similar

oaklandish said:
but then I see the 1640TL-V appears to have the same footprint. Yikes! so now I am thinking again.
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That thinking can spiral out of control.

For me after considering 16", then 17" and 18" I came back to 14" swing was the Goldilocks swing for lathes. Because are you really going to hoist an 800 lb length of bar stock and spin it in one of these Asian lathes, not happening imo. On paper it may have the capacity, it may fit dimensionally but can the machine actually handle stock of that weight class?

Increased swing over the cross could be critical. Maybe that 2 extra inches of swing gives you 1 extra inch of swing over the cross slide and maybe it doesn't, check the specs. Even then though we are back to dimensional capacity vs actual capacity and capability of the machine to spin larger diameter heavy stock and make use of that extra swing capacity.

Here are the steady rests for two 14" lathes. On the left a 1959 SAG 14 vs a 2 year old Grizzly G0709 14" on the right. Now which has more actual capacity.

lr27.jpg


Here are the follow rests, both 14" lathes on paper. This pattern just keeps repeating. Compound larger, wider, heavier duty. Tailstock larger, much larger diameter quill. Cross slide larger, wider. Carriage much larger, wider. Bed ways 10+ inches vs 7 inches and dimensionally much larger.

The SAG 14 has a 2" spindle bore which you can get on an Asian 14" lathe, but can you get it with 5+ inch diameter spindle bearings like the SAG 14 with a 27" long spindle?

I'm not saying don't buy a new Asian lathe, I own one and I'm reasonably happy with it. But go into this with your eyes wide open with a common sense view of actual machine capability vs what's printed in the specs.

The total lathe weight, 2,900 lbs vs 1,300 lbs, which really has more capacity and capability. Grizzly lathe 2hp, the SAG 14 5hp.

lr28.jpg


I'm not trying to pick on the Asian machines built today. This applies to pretty much everything for sale now, nuts, bolts, washers whatever it's all become smaller, lighter, thinner e.g. cheaper and less capable vs days of old.
 
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coolidge said:
That thinking can spiral out of control.

For me after considering 16", then 17" and 18" I came back to 14" swing was the Goldilocks swing for lathes. Because are you really going to hoist an 800 lb length of bar stock and spin it in one of these Asian lathes, not happening imo. On paper it may have the capacity, it may fit dimensionally but can the machine actually handle stock of that weight class?

Increased swing over the cross could be critical. Maybe that 2 extra inches of swing gives you 1 extra inch of swing over the cross slide and maybe it doesn't, check the specs. Even then though we are back to dimensional capacity vs actual capacity and capability of the machine to spin larger diameter heavy stock and make use of that extra swing capacity.

Here are the steady rests for two 14" lathes. On the left a 1959 SAG 14 vs a 2 year old Grizzly G0709 14" on the right. Now which has more actual capacity.

View attachment 571373

Here are the follow rests, both 14" lathes on paper. This pattern just keeps repeating. Compound larger, wider, heavier duty. Tailstock larger, much larger diameter quill. Cross slide larger, wider. Carriage much larger, wider. Bed ways 10+ inches vs 7 inches and dimensionally much larger.

The SAG 14 has a 2" spindle bore which you can get on an Asian 14" lathe, but can you get it with 5+ inch diameter spindle bearings like the SAG 14 with a 27" long spindle?

I'm not saying don't buy a new Asian lathe, I own one and I'm reasonably happy with it. But go into this with your eyes wide open with a common sense view of actual machine capability vs what's printed in the specs.

The total lathe weight, 2,900 lbs vs 1,300 lbs, which really has more capacity and capability. Grizzly lathe 2hp, the SAG 14 5hp.

View attachment 571374

I'm not trying to pick on the Asian machines built today. This applies to pretty much everything for sale now, nuts, bolts, washers whatever it's all become smaller, lighter, thinner e.g. cheaper and less capable vs days of old.
Click to expand...
the real question is not how large of a lathe can i get, it is how large of a lathe can i use.
 
coolidge said:
Here are the follow rests, both 14" lathes on paper. This pattern just keeps repeating. Compound larger, wider, heavier duty. Tailstock larger, much larger diameter quill. Cross slide larger, wider. Carriage much larger, wider. Bed ways 10+ inches vs 7 inches and dimensionally much larger.

The SAG 14 has a 2" spindle bore which you can get on an Asian 14" lathe, but can you get it with 5+ inch diameter spindle bearings like the SAG 14 with a 27" long spindle?

I'm not saying don't buy a new Asian lathe, I own one and I'm reasonably happy with it. But go into this with your eyes wide open with a common sense view of actual machine capability vs what's printed in the specs.

The total lathe weight, 2,900 lbs vs 1,300 lbs, which really has more capacity and capability. Grizzly lathe 2hp, the SAG 14 5hp.
Click to expand...
The specs on these particular Taiwanese lathes are not the typical Chinese ones. The 1440 and 1640 lathes I am looking at are approximately 3600lbs and 4000lbs respectively. The bed ways are about 10.25" apart and they both have a 3-phase 5HP motor. The 1640 says 10" swing over cross slide and the 1440 has an 8" swing over the cross slide. Based on everything I have seen in videos and read online I suspect the machines I am looking into are very capable. This is not to say I disagree with your point about the general state of entropy in the current state of manufacturing though.

I have searched for the past year or so at auctions, craigslist, forums, and marketplace and not seen much available on the used market that was not clapped out. A heavy machine that can't hold tolerances and /or needs rebuilding is not much value to me. But if a 14-16" machine came up that was in great condition and had a spindle bore greater than 1-9/16" I would probably jump on it. As far as new production manual lathes we can get here and that don't cost a house, these are about the best one can find.
 
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dabear3428 said:
the real question is not how large of a lathe can i get, it is how large of a lathe can i use.
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yeah this is a consideration. I am in my early 50's and in pretty good physical condition but this will not always be the case and changing a large chuck frequently will become more of a chore as I age. I use a 6-jaw chuck about 75% of time and a 10" Bison 6-jaw chuck with the D1-6 mounting plate is about 90lbs, the 8" version is closer to 55lbs. Not quite double the weight but getting there.
 
oaklandish said:
The specs on these particular Taiwanese lathes are not the typical Chinese ones. The 1440 and 1640 lathes I am looking at are approximately 3600lbs and 4000lbs respectively. The bed ways are about 10.25" apart and they both have a 3-phase 5HP motor. The 1640 says 10" swing over cross slide and the 1440 has an 8" swing over the cross slide. Based on everything I have seen in videos and read online I suspect the machines I am looking into are very capable. This is not to say I disagree with your point about the general state of entropy in the current state of manufacturing though. As far as new production manual lathes we can get here and that don't cost a house, these are about the best one can find.

I have searched for the past year or so at auctions, craigslist, forums, and marketplace and not seen much available on the used market that was not clapped out. A heavy machine that can't hold tolerances and /or needs rebuilding is not much value to me. But if a 14-16" machine came up that was in great condition and had a spindle bore greater than 1-9/16" I would probably jump on it.
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Excellent, clearly you have done your homework, and you are focused on the right things. Those specs sound quite capable imo. Add quality chucks, a quality QCTP and holders and you're ready to dive into tooling. Turning tools, boring bars and inserts.

I will once again give Precision Mathews a shout out for their most excellent MX200L MagXAct lathe DRO it's awesome! I just purchased my 2nd for the SAG 14.

The used machine market is sketchy as hell here in the Pacific NW. I watched the used market for over a year and nothing but clapped out junk. Several other guys have been in the same boat. I had widened my search to include California, Oregon, Washington, Nevada and Idaho and it really didn't get much better. About the only worthy candidates were Mori's and Whacheons which were just too damn big for my shop space. Plus priced through the roof.

So I ended up just buying a cheap new China 1440 lathe and got on with it. I continued watching the used market long after, still nothing.

Then over this past year the pink unicorn lathes began popping up for sale. First a buddy in Idaho who was also looking landed a personal use 1 owner SAG 12 lathe. I almost bought it but could not go backwards from 14" to 12". Then recently out of the blue just 17 miles from my house out in the boonies a one owner SAG 1460 lathe with damn near no use on it goes up for sale and I pounced on it.

But waiting for a pink unicorn used lathe like that could take a week, or 5 years.
 
coolidge said:
Excellent, clearly you have done your homework, and you are focused on the right things. Those specs sound quite capable imo. Add quality chucks, a quality QCTP and holders and you're ready to dive into tooling. Turning tools, boring bars and inserts.

I will once again give Precision Mathews a shout out for their most excellent MX200L MagXAct lathe DRO it's awesome! I just purchased my 2nd for the SAG 14.

The used machine market is sketchy as hell here in the Pacific NW. I watched the used market for over a year and nothing but clapped out junk. Several other guys have been in the same boat. I had widened my search to include California, Oregon, Washington, Nevada and Idaho and it really didn't get much better. About the only worthy candidates were Mori's and Whacheons which were just too damn big for my shop space. Plus priced through the roof.

So I ended up just buying a cheap new China 1440 lathe and got on with it. I continued watching the used market long after, still nothing.

Then over this past year the pink unicorn lathes began popping up for sale. First a buddy in Idaho who was also looking landed a personal use 1 owner SAG 12 lathe. I almost bought it but could not go backwards from 14" to 12". Then recently out of the blue just 17 miles from my house out in the boonies a one owner SAG 1460 lathe with damn near no use on it goes up for sale and I pounced on it.

But waiting for a pink unicorn used lathe like that could take a week, or 5 years.
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Yeah my search radius is about 700 miles as well. I took a 5am one way flight to Las Vegas and rented a ryder truck at Home Depot to get a mint condition Sharp 9x49 B-port clone. Drove 9 hrs back the same day. Still had cosmoline and the protective stickers on it. It was totally worth the effort.

IMG_9811 2.jpeg
 
I skipped the 13,14,16,17” lathes and went straight to the 2060 Victor, and kept the 2, 1236’s that see the most work.
I have not maxed out the 2060 yet.
for me the 1236 is just about the perfect size for most of the work I do , but I have the option to do bigger work with the 2060
 
Spindle bore diameter was a big factor in my decision, I do 2" bar stock projects with my 2 1/16 through bore. Not having to deal with a big stick out was a very happy finding. Big chucks are heavy, and if you need to do small work/big work, you may be popping chucks a lot to chuck up small diameter projects.
 
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