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Nogaflex Indicator Holders

Discussion in 'METROLOGY - MEASURE, SETUP & FIT' started by ronboult, Apr 15, 2015.

  1. ronboult

    ronboult Australia Active User Active Member

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    On the excellent advice of Will ( Darkzero) I recently purchased two Nogaflex Indicator Holders. In case you can't guess Will loves his Nogas.

    The first is a Noga NF 1022 which has a stem for inserting into a collet in the Mill Spindle and is used for centering work under the Mill Spindle. The articulated arm has a fine adjust at the end of the arm (just before the indicator hole and dovetails) which seems appropriate for this type of arm. My main use will be for centering my Rotary Table under the Mill Spindle.

    The second is a Noga NF 10433 which has a magnetic base with fine adjustment on the base and a short arm with hole and dovetail for holding both Dial Indicators and Dial Test Indicators. I use this on both the Mill and the Lathe. On the Mill typical uses are aligning the Vice etc and on the lathe it will be mounted on the Saddle for aligning items in the 4 jaw chuck and also for checking the alignment of my new lathe.

    Both these Nogas are in the smaller sizes since both my Mill and my current Lathe ( Sieg SX3 an SC4) are on the smaller size. There are larger versions available for larger machines. They are readily available from USA suppliers and I imported mine to Australia from All Industrial Supply

    The first photo shows a demo of aligning an object directly below the centre of the spindle. Note the fine adjustment at the bottom of the arm just above the indicator. Makes getting just the right amount of contact with the work a breeze. When alignment is correct rotating the spindle doesn't cause the indicator needle to move. Even with the small size Noga arm the range of adjustment is much larger than required for my size mill.

    This photo and the next also show the Tormach quick change ER20 Collets that I routinely now use on my mill. My mill has a R8 spindle with a R8 3/4" collet which is the standard for Tormach tooling and changing tools with the Tormach Tool holders is a doddle. I suggest you check them out on the Tormach Site.

    IMG_2604.jpg

    IMG_2605.jpg



    The next two photos show the Magnetic base model being used to align the Mill Vice with the x axis. The Indicator is held stationary fixed to the column and the vice is moved in the x axis to check the alignment.

    IMG_2606.jpg

    In this case the fine adjustment is on the top of the magnetic base which allows adjustment without jiggling the indicator. There is no fine adjustment at the end of the arm, just the clamp for the indicator.
    IMG_2609.jpg


    Are Nogas excellent tools YES

    The fine adjustment screws have just the right degree of fine travel and sensitivity while the arm locking mechanism is smooth and secure. I originally had a cheap Asian copy of a Noga and while cheap it is not in the same league. It has been consigned to the bin. Are there other brands of similar quality indicator holders? I don't know. I have a Mitutoyo traditional type magnetic base and arm and it is no where near the quality or usability.

    It is not often that one can find such quality tools at a reasonable price. The Nogas are a fine piece of kit and I would not hesitate to buy them again, buy more or recommend them.
    Ron

    IMG_2603.jpg
     
  2. darkzero

    darkzero Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Very nice Ron, I'm glad you like them. Well I never heard of one person that didn't like them. I'll work on gathering up some photos of mine & will post here. My post might get long though! :big grin:
     
  3. kd4gij

    kd4gij United States Active User Active Member

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    That's it ,Darkzero.rub it in. You could loan me one of those many nogas you have, for about 20 years:laughing:
     
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  4. darkzero

    darkzero Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Haha! How's this for rubbing it in! And I have another one arriving tomorrow! I think that will be #7 now. :grin:

    Img_0625-1.jpg
     
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  5. kd4gij

    kd4gij United States Active User Active Member

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    Darkzero-the official spokes person for noga. :dollars:
     
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  6. machinistmarty

    machinistmarty United States Manual Machinist Active Member

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    image.jpg image.jpg Just a few different mounts I've made for the noga's. The dovetail on the back of the starret is my go to indicator The 3/8 rod with the 1/4 starret clamp is very versatile
     
  7. EmilioG

    EmilioG United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Wow, why so many Noga's Will? Did you buy them all new?
    Very nice collection. I'm getting one with an Interapid and a plunger
    style indicator.
     
  8. brino

    brino Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hey Ron!
    Great pictures, and it's always nice to see a ringing endorsement from someone happy with a tooling purchase.

    Thanks for sharing.
    -brino

    Darkzero; my wife thinks that _I_ obsess about tools, I need to show her this......
     
  9. darkzero

    darkzero Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Cause I gots issues! ;) Yes, I buy them all new.

    You should see my flashlight collection. :)
     
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  10. ronboult

    ronboult Australia Active User Active Member

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    Will I fully understand your addiction to fine tools & machinery. It is an incurable disease so you can look forward to lots more tools for the rest of your life.

    Some side issues. Have you investigated the Tormach tooling system. I know it is intended for a CNC mill but it also works great on a manual machine.
    Also have a look at http://www.ctctools.biz/quick-change-floating-tap-chuck-set-m3-m12-with-r8-shank-l42/. They seem interesting. I am going to buy a set to trial. Having trouble finding a 3/4" to B16 chuck arbor to adapt them to my Tormach system. So far only seems to be available from RDG Tools at exorbitant shipping.
    Ron
     
  11. EmilioG

    EmilioG United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    My Wife would kill me. :) We all suffer from the same Tooling addiction/
     
  12. astjp2

    astjp2 United States Active User Active Member

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    Eventually I will get a noga, right now I am collecting indicators. Tim
     
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  13. FOMOGO

    FOMOGO United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I got one when they first came on the scene. I use it mostly for automotive (setting up valve train,etc.) work. So much easier to use than the conventional style. I'd be lost without it. Mike
    CIMG0008-1.jpg
     
  14. ronboult

    ronboult Australia Active User Active Member

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    After playing with my new Nogas for a few days I have come up with a minor problem / annoyance.

    Tom from OxTools adapted a Noga Arm to the Attachment Clamp of an Indicol ( Youtube video) so that the Noga can be installed on the Mill spindle without removing the cutter. I think that Darkzero has also posted on this topic.

    Anyhow when I ordered my Noga NF 1022 I researched that the stem would unscrew to reveal a thread that I could use to attach the Noga Arm to my Indicol clamp. Noga even make double ended nipples for that purpose.

    Problem is that I can't unscrew the top stem to reveal what I believe to be a female thread in the attachment point. It sure is stuck fast. I suspect that it is assembled with Loctite. The Ball and the stem both have flats for spanners but I can't get them to budge.

    Any Ideas???????

    Oh well if I can't get them apart I will have to take Darkzero's approach and order another Noga without a stem if I can find the right part #

    Ron


    IMG_2614-2.jpg IMG_2615-2.jpg IMG_2621-2.jpg
     
  15. 18w

    18w United States Active User Active Member

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    I did the same conversion to the indicol as Tom Lipton did. Both mine and his were Noga's with the mag base. Mine unscrewed very easily. Perhaps they do use loctite on the collet stem version. You might try a little heat on the stem with a propane torch. Good luck, you will really like the indicol/noga setup.

    Darrell
     
  16. kd4gij

    kd4gij United States Active User Active Member

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    I would not use a flame you will burn the finish. H heat gun would be ok just don't get it to hot. Better yet just make an adapter for the clamp to except the stem with a set scew to hold it.



    Or you could do like I do with my cheap knockoff and just stick the mag base to the quil. It works just as well. For a poor mans setup.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2015
  17. 18w

    18w United States Active User Active Member

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  18. Harvey Melvin Richards

    Harvey Melvin Richards United States Active User Active Member

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    I did the same thing, except I hate how flimsy Indicols are, so I made my own that uses a Noga arm.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2015
  19. darkzero

    darkzero Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Ron, when I made my Indicol to Noga I used the arm off a NF61003 so the arm had a male thread, I believe it was M5. Post #106 . I made an adapter to mount my Noga arm to the spindle mounting bracket instead of simply drilling & tapping it like Tom Lipton did.

    As said I did not use a NF1018 or NF1022. However on my NF1018 I was able to remove the 8mm stem on mine. Mine did not have threadlock on the threads but it did have some sort of epoxy on the thread relief to hold it in place. I slightly torched mine & it loosed right up. IIRC the thread was M6 but the male thread was on the stem so you'll have to use a bolt to attach it or make a threaded male adapter. I'll see if I can find the original stem & snap a pic for you. I still need to snap pics of all mine & get them posted here. Been busy with work so I may not get to it till next week I expect.

    Img_9075.jpg

    Img_9095.jpg


    If you can't get the stem off, you can however use your NF1022 & still do the conversion the way Shadon HKW did. Stan recently posted a video on how he did it. Starting at 32:30

     
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  20. wrmiller

    wrmiller Chief Tinkerer H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Received my first Noga today. Medium sized with the adjustable base. Looks really good. Can't wait to try it out.
     
  21. machinistmarty

    machinistmarty United States Manual Machinist Active Member

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    You will be hooked. I will probably never buy another starett
     
  22. ronboult

    ronboult Australia Active User Active Member

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    Hi Will
    I finally managed to remove the stem from my NF1022 with brute force on the spanners. Like yours mine has some sort of locking material on the stem and down onto the threads. The end of the arm has a 5mm female thread into which I will insert a stud to connect to the Indicol Mount in a manner similar to yours. If I dont replace the thread lock I can use my NF1022 in either mode but I guess that after changing back and forth a few times I will settle on only one arrangement.

    This will have to wait as I will be making a final decision on a new lathe this week. Pretty certain it will be the Sieg Runmaster 13 x40.
    Will start a new thread when it arrives
    Ron
     
  23. PatMiles

    PatMiles United States Active User Active Member

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    Being a fan of Noga holders I had to order an NF1022. I pondered (can you take penicillin for ponder?) how to adapt the NF1022 to my Indicol and decided to turn the last 1/2" of the stem of the Noga to .250". Doing so let's me use the Noga with the Indicol or in a collet in my Bridgeport. I used my handy dandy Harbor Freight mini propane torch to loosen the factory threadlocker on the Noga with no harm done to the finish.
     
  24. PatMiles

    PatMiles United States Active User Active Member

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    +1
     
  25. EmilioG

    EmilioG United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I will be buying my first Noga very soon. For centering rotary tables though, I like Tom Griffins' idea of making a brass
    piece that fit's in the tables center hole. 1 2 3 done.
     
  26. EmilioG

    EmilioG United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I wrote to Noga and here is what they replied:
    Hi Emilio,

    I thank your e-mail dated yesterday.

    Yes the stem is threaded into the ball and we use Loctite as well.

    Maybe it will be possible the remove the stem by air heater instrument.

    If not you may buy the arm and the top part separately: NF60003 and FA1500.

    Best regards,

    Avi

    Noga

    This is what I will do,.buy the arm in two pieces w/o Loctite.
     
  27. EmilioG

    EmilioG United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    For centering a rotary table by Tom griffin: (in under a minute!). The great Tom Griffin.


    This is so cool.
     
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  28. sanddan

    sanddan Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I like Tom's method. Any hints on the best way to machine the taper? I made a test bar to fit the taper on my rotary table that I use to indicate on but I am not sure I did a great job with the taper. I guess I would like a better fit than I got with mine. It looks like Tom's does not try to match the taper so only needs to have a big enough diameter to stop in the hole at some point. An easier part to make.
     
  29. EmilioG

    EmilioG United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    ·

    photo.jpg
    Ron Hubbard 1 year ago
    Tom, can you show us how you determined you needed a 3 degree taper over 1 inch. Then show us how you cut that taper. Sorry, I'm just a beginner. Sure this sounds elemental. I don't have taper gauges and wouldn't know how to use them if I did. Thanks, Ron
    ·

    photo.jpg
    Toms Techniques 1 year ago
    Hey Ron, The 3º taper was just a WAG. I needed just enough to center up in the hole without falling through. I cut the taper using the taper attachment on my lathe. Another way to turn it would be to offset the tailstock slightly and yet another way would be to turn it using the compound rest set at an angle. Taper turning on the lathe is one of the topics that I haven't got to yet for my videos, but they will be coming. It doesn't require any special tools to measure a taper like this. You just convert the angle to taper per inch and use a pair of outside mics and a ruler to measure the diameters a known distance apart. Tom
    Show less
    ·
     
  30. darkzero

    darkzero Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Do you have a source to buy the Noga parts or will you buy directly from them if possible? I looked a while back & could not find a vendor that sold individual parts that was not extremely expensive. If you do have a source, please share.

    As I mentioned in post 19, I just took the arm off an entire assy. It was cheaper that way for me as they are almost always on sale & stacked a discount code on top of it.

    I was able to remove the stem on my NF1018 but as I mentioned before, that leaves you with a female thread as opposed to a male thread if removing the arm from a mag base. Easy to adapt though. But the reason I removed my stem was not for the Indicol marriage. I made a 1/2" stem for mine. I got tired of using an 8mm collet in the mill.

    Img_1266.jpg



    Unless I'm missing something (I have not watched the video you posted) if you're going to use an indicator to center a rotary table, why do you need to make an adapter? I center mine using a Blake Co-Ax directly off the RT's taper. I am making an centering adapter but it's meant to be used so an indicator is not needed. I'll post that when I'm done with it.
     
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