Old Horizontal Mill-will I Have Problems Drilling?

thanvg

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Hi there guys,

Please, share your experience since I am a total newb in this!
I have a lathe and have been in need to do some milling for some time now. Of course I have been looking at the ubiquitous ZX45 knockoffs, but, must admit that I am no fan or their built quality. My lathe is a nice vintage italian machine, nicely built, a joy to use. The new chinese drill-mill will be nice, but the rough castings, rough ways scraping and unfinished surfaces put me off a bit.

Anyhow, an old used german milling machine came up for sale in what seems to be a reasonable price. It is a Hermle FWH 630, something like this:

66_0.jpg

It seems lovely, with vertical attachment, power feeds (controllable speed of power feed!) and all. It is, sadly, a bit smaller in working envelope compared to the ZX45, but this is not my main concern.

What I would like your advice on is, can you DRILL on a machine like this??

Well, of course you can drill, but, can you drill easily? In this picture, apart from the three wheels for X, Y, Z, we can see a huge control similar to the ones the drill/mills have for controlling the quill. I imagine this is used for 'rapid' movement of the table in the Z axis for drilling. The levers are that long, since lifting the table will require a lot of leverage, I assume.
So, if I am correct on my assumption, that thing is for drilling. But, can you drill nicely or the weight of the table will take away every kind of feeling. Imaging using a spotting drill to start a small accurate hole by lifting the whole table...Well, does anybody have a personal experience on this? What do you think?

(and, in general, ZX45 or this nice vintage machine?)

Sorry for the long post, looking forward to your advice!

BR,
Thanos
 
Very nice looking mill,

I'm not an expert hear but I would say drilling on a vertical mill is easier, as you say with the verticle head fitted you can get better visibility than drilling sideways as would be your other option with the drill chuck in the horizontal spindle nose.

Spot drills will probably be fine but small twist drills could be fun. The speed you can move the knee up and down will be a factor , should provide a lot of work out potential. :)

Stuart
 
Very nice looking mill,

I'm not an expert hear but I would say drilling on a vertical mill is easier, as you say with the verticle head fitted you can get better visibility than drilling sideways as would be your other option with the drill chuck in the horizontal spindle nose.

Spot drills will probably be fine but small twist drills could be fun. The speed you can move the knee up and down will be a factor , should provide a lot of work out potential. :)

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

yes, I am talking about drilling with the vertical head of course, this is only where you can apply the 'fast-bed-lifting-lever' thing if I have guessed its function correctly...
And, regarding the work out...that's the thing..: I love vintage machinery but I also want to use my mill, possibly a chinese drill/mill with the nice old quill and handle would be wiser...
 
My mill has something vaguely similar but is for a rapid movement of the table in the 'left-right' direction (X direction?) and is used when using the horizontal mill spindle as a surface grinder. That may be what that handle is for.

My handle is removable but you can see the taper it fits onto in the photo to the left of the 'back-forth' table handwheel (Y direction?).

IMG_4389s.jpg
 
Get it
You will find many uses for it, the vertical head will work for vertical milling and drilling and you will two mills in one.
Drilling will be the same as using the knee on a Bridgeport. It will take a little to get use to but not a big problem.
watch myford boy on you tube using his mill for drilling.
 
hermle is top quality, still in business
the big controls will give you more `feel` in drilling
i would take the hermle over any chinese mill anytime
 
Hi Thanos,

To me it is not obvious why it has three hand wheels and that big crank.
I think it would be difficult to lift the entire knee with just the little hand-wheel.

My mill is a big old 1916 Cincinnati 3S horizontal with a vertical head. It has no feed in the vertical head spindle so I need to crank the entire knee when drilling. One of my next projects is a long crank handle for some leverage. It only came with two hand-wheels and I sometimes need both hands on it to lift the knee. It does also have fully-mechanical power feed in all three axis, but I have never used the vertical power-feed when drilling, it would be like trying to tap a hole with a tractor PTO.

From my experience, drilling feedback "sensitivity" suffers greatly from the huge mass of the knee. I can see and hear, what's going on, but the "feel" is very decoupled or non-existent.

If I need precision placed smaller diameter holes, I will centre drill them on the mill where I can use the dials to start them where I want, and then move over to the drill press where I can feel what's happening.

If I'm just doing large holes then I will drill them on the mill, but with a bigger bit that's less likely to break.

The one other factor to consider is spindle speed. For small diameter drills you want higher RPM. My mill tops out at around 400RPM.
I have no idea the spindle speed ranges of this machine, but it's worth looking at.

With all that said, if you can get it for a good price, I say buy it!
Having it will increase the capabilities of your shop immensely.
It may not be the best drilling machine, but it looks like a fantastic machine!

-brino

...and BTW do you have the proper power for that mill? Again it's not a shop-stopper but it should be figured into the price and setup required.
 
Guys thanks for the replies...your trying to get me into trouble and buy the damn thing..

Well, I am not exactly sure about the power requirements, but it is a small little mill (290x120mm XxY travel), I don't think it will be more than 1 HP, 1.5 tops.
Also, it spins up to 2240 rot/min, not bad at all!

Still concerned about the drilling difficulties and the working capacity (a fair amount smaller than the ZX45), but, of course, I also feel that it is a fine, well built machine that's worth to have....
Not easy to decide...
 
I should have been more precise with my language.
The question is more about 1-phase vs. 3-phase than about raw power.
If it's a 3-phase machine you may need to factor a phase converter into the price and installation "overhead" if you do not have 3-phase.
-brino
 
Yes Brino, 3-phase power is not an issue...

The thing is that I think that MozamPete's suggestion is correct. The lever I am talking about is most probably connected to the X axis for rapid movement than to the Z axis for drilling...pity

I guess I have to see it by myself and discover all this, but it's a trip to the seller and I lack the spare time...
 
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