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Ot: Rainy Day Fund

Discussion in 'GENERAL DISCUSSIONS' started by Nels, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. Nels

    Nels United States Founder Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I wish I'd thought of this, but I can't take the credit for it. Davidh actually thought of this.

    It's obvious to us that sometimes bad things happen to good people. They need our help. We have to start sending them money when we find out. It might be a good or bad time for us.

    What if we established a rainy day fund that we could draw from to help people ?
     
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  2. David S

    David S Canada Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Nels It was Me David S. However I am willing and ready to contribute.

    I hope that others here will look at this and see if they can contribute just a bit for others.

    Please make it easy to contribute. I prefer Pay pal, but what ever works for others would be good.

    Going into 2017 I hope that this fund would make sense.

    David S
     
  3. savarin

    savarin Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I think this is a very good idea and if we are logical about it then $5 from every member would be a gigantic pot to start with that could potentially help a lot of people.
    The arguments would then come when its disbursed, how much , to whom? do I know them? and so forth.
    Then theres the administration of said fund, What sort of costs would it attract? taxes? etc. etc.
    Then unfortunately theres the old adage of "You cant please everybody"
    Still worth looking into with some answers though.
     
  4. David S

    David S Canada Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Savarin brings up some good considerations.

    After we all review them, and then think about all the good we could do for those less fortunate than some of us, do we think there is a way to set up a "donation plate" that could be held here in order to help our colleagues here that may need temporary assistance to get back on their feet before they qualify for long term assistance, or just simply recover and get on with it.

    As always is there a way to let the positives over come the negatives?

    Happy New Year

    David
     
  5. Nels

    Nels United States Founder Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    David,

    As usual, I have to check into the legalities. I also need to find out how we can set it up so that the members are assured the money only goes to the truly needy, without insulting those needing help. Since it's members money, maybe a vote. I don't know. There are options too. I never got the site store going. Maybe donate the store's proceeds to a person in need. You get a tee shirt or cap and help someone. Maybe donate 50% of premium memberships sold. I am just thinking aloud.
     
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  6. David S

    David S Canada Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thanks for getting back Nelson,

    I know that this is not easy. But it seems to me that when our colleagues that have contributed to this site, have encountered some hard times, it would be nice to be of assistance.

    I just wanted to bump this back up to see if there is a way to try and help. For sure it has to be done legally and doesn't cause any issues with this site.

    Perhaps other members can chime in to offer suggestions.. both for or against..

    David
     
  7. Nels

    Nels United States Founder Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    A 501c3 can only donate to other charities, ie 501c3s. But a fund set up with members money is different .
     
  8. TakeDeadAim

    TakeDeadAim H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    This sounds like a great idea, I wish I had some clue as to how it would need to be done. Keep us informed, I certainly would help out if we can get it set up.
     
  9. tq60

    tq60 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Check with your bank as they usually setup accounts for things like this quite often.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
     
  10. David S

    David S Canada Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Given all of the valuable information and assistance that our members here are willing to share with others, it is my hope that we could come up with a common fund to help those that fall into hard times for 2017

    As is often the case, what we simply think is a good thing, can in practice cause complications. It is my sincere hope that in 2017 our moderators and founders can come up with something that would be appropriate within the guidelines of a 501c3 charity.

    All the best,

    David
     
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  11. bfd

    bfd United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    ok I m in whats the details bill
     
  12. olcopper

    olcopper H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I really like the idea of a"rainy day fund", we have had several members over the past year that need something like this to get them over their current situation----and I agree, $5.00 or $5.00 per month isn't going to hurt anyone financially, but it sure can help someone who needs it.
    With something like a vote of 10 members on the decision of yes or no wouldn't have to fall on Nels or any single person to decide to assist someone or not.
    Some details need to be worked out, but we need to keep it as simple as possible.
    olcopper
     
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  13. David S

    David S Canada Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    In my mind this is a great example of how it would be good to sit around a table and have an open pros and cons discussion. While there have been instances here where I felt I must assist, I can see that there should be some sort of high bar. And by that I mean that the Hobby Machinist simply isn't a benevolent society, but rather some way to help those who have given so much to this forum, but have fallen into short term hard times.

    Thoughts anyone?

    David
     
  14. newbydave

    newbydave United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Although I agree and I have given to those in need I believe it should be on an individual basis. Let each member determine to give or not. Eliminates a lot of extra work for those running this forum and also questions about where the money goes.
     
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  15. Nels

    Nels United States Founder Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I think what we should do is this.

    On this thread, which I will make sticky, when someone needs help, we announce it.
    YOU decide to give or not.

    How does that sound?
     
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  16. David S

    David S Canada Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Nels, while I agree that is a possible solution, sort of what we have already done.

    My preference is to be more pro active, and have something in the kitty ready to go. Personally there are times when I can afford to give when nothing else needs my charity and wouldn't mind making a donation. But sometimes when someone here needs help it may coincide with a situation that I am not able to contribute due to other priorities.

    It is not easy, and I understand that there are all sorts of complications. Perhaps there is someone here that can suggest a workable alternate solution.

    All I know is that I would like to be able to help here during times when I am able.

    David
     
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  17. The Liberal Arts Garage

    The Liberal Arts Garage United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Here's my consideration: after the four or five years I 've been here I say this
    organization seems to be made up of the nicest bunch of " Real Men " I've
    met ( and don't fail to include the " Real Women" with us") . Let's assume
    honesty in need, and trust as necessary, not being too simple to"verify " if it
    seems appropriate. Send a little extra-designated to the fund- with your$20
    annually, just to make it a habit! ....... BLJHB
     
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  18. terrywerm

    terrywerm New Member Liaison Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Like many others, I have given to others in need here, and will continue to do so. However, I do see some merit in letting individual members decide on whether or not to give when it is needed. I like the idea of a slush fund that is ready to go, but administering that fund could turn really ugly for those tasked with doing so and could turn old friends into mortal enemies. I think individual donations are the better way to go.

    One other drawback to a board administered fund is that it would not take long for word to get around that we are giving away money to those in need. Next thing you know we've got some new members that are here only for a shot at some free cash regardless of actual need or interest in hobby machining.
     
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  19. Tozguy

    Tozguy Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    If we are having this discussion it is because Nels founded this forum. In that way we have all (or almost all) met through him.
    He has been gracious enough to inform us of people he knows who are in need. And we have voluntarily helped members that he has appealed for. I would not necessarily respond the same if someone else I don't know made the appeal.

    When we make a donation to HM the money is used at Nels' discretion. he does not have to report to anybody. So any part of that that he chooses to forward to members in need is fine with me.

    David, if you want to contribute when you can, there is already the donation (subscription) button.

    With that in mind the idea of creating a separate fund with administrative rules, and people to judge who gets what, seems to be unnecessary. More, I have seen this tried elsewhere under similar conditions and it didn't work for long. Essentially members who were poor but generous were giving to people who were better off than them but didn't realize it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
  20. terrywerm

    terrywerm New Member Liaison Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    In an effort to clear the air here, H-M is owned by a non-profit (501[c][3]) corporation that has been established for educational purposes. The corporation and this forum, as well as all monies collected are governed by a board of directors and not by one person.


    As Nels pointed out, there are some legal issues to consider, and H-M itself cannot simply donate money to individuals at it's discretion.
     
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  21. David S

    David S Canada Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Thank you all for the considerate discussion on this topic. While I wish there could be something to have on hand. I think that those with other perspectives have pointed out some of the problems. After all we are a hobby machining site, not a charitable foundation.

    If what we are doing now is working then..as they say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

    David
     
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  22. Nels

    Nels United States Founder Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I have an idea. Why can't you guys set up a fund on Go Fund Me or something similar? Then make donations, and hold a vote to determine who will get some money.
    You can appoint someone you trust to hold the password to the account.

    A not for profit such as THM can only donate to other not for profits. That is the law. We can't donate to individuals.
    Matter of fact, I will be attending a training course that I am paying for myself to make sure we are in conformity with all regulations (CLE).

    In terms of what Terry said, he is 100% correct.
    This isn't "Nelson's forum". It stopped being my forum years ago, matter of fact.
    I guess I need to make this transparent, because transparency is always a good thing.

    There was another forum that was privately owned. It got very, very popular. The owner never accepted donations.
    One day, a guy logged on, and told everyone he was "the new owner." The forum was sold.
    Apparently, that was the old owner's succession plan, to pay for everything, then sell to a company that buys forums.
    It was all his money, so he had the right to do that.
    I would be lying if I told you that I was impressed by what he did.

    This place has gone a different way.

    I accepted donations to keep it going. In my mind, that made it yours (the members), not mine.
    You guys participate and help each other, and post your work here, that makes it yours, not mine.

    I incorporated this place as an educational not for profit a few years back. The corporation owns it, I don't.
    There is a board, made up of staff members that are elected, that governs the corporation, and the site.
    I have one vote on the board. I would like to stay on the board as long as I can to help keep things running.
    We have regular board meetings where things are discussed. The corporate strictures are followed.
    That is my succession plan. When I die, get sick, or are driven off, the board will keep running it without me.
    The corporation cannot be sold, except to another not for profit. It can't be liquidated, except by court order.
    My main job is to do the technical stuff to keep the board up and running, and keep tax-deductible donations coming in to keep it running.

    So, I don't own this place, and I can't do whatever I like.
    I founded the place, and I work on the server to try to keep it running.
    If I could help everyone financially, I would.
    I've contributed personally to help people, to the extent I could afford to.
     
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  23. Tozguy

    Tozguy Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Terry and Nels,
    Thanks for setting me straight on the HM corporation. Good to know.
    Since the corporation cannot donate to individuals, then obviously the idea of it sponsoring or facilitating a separate fund to do so could not fly either.

    On a different note, I do hope that the administrators and 'workers' of the corporation can be compensated for out of pocket expenses that relate to their running and learning to run the corporation. You guys do so much already, hopefully it is not also costing you personally.

    Best regards, Mike
     
  24. royesses

    royesses United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I think it should stay the way it already is. When a forum member needs help he/she should ask and tell us why. Then individual members should decide if they want to help and then give what they can at their discretion. That is the way to keep it honest and not add layers of complexity. I give what I can when I can. As has been said this is a forum for people to learn machining and to help others to learn machining. Not a charity. We give out of the goodness of our hearts and it should stay that way. There can be no worries about legal problems this way. And no worries about scammers joining just to make some easy cash. Nels has enough on his plate keeping this forum running. This is just my opinion.
    Roy
     
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  25. The Liberal Arts Garage

    The Liberal Arts Garage United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Suggestion: a self-elected discussion group with a defined budget without
    rules ; some times a lump of money right now is needed, sometimes a longer
    timed dribble (educational for instance )' facilitation of donations, perhaps.
    I was once, in a different time, a management broom - pusher at a couple
    of New England mechanical museums, and the mix of Money and Conceit was
    a drag. How about a self- effacing group of five to seven kind but thoughtful
    Folk with little to address but their Conscienses. ........BLJHB.
     
  26. The Liberal Arts Garage

    The Liberal Arts Garage United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Addendum- pick someone responsible ,address on a "message", and I will
    send on. My " perfect " eleventh edition " bible" for the "Fund" . This can
    only work if someone starts a fund somewhere with a bank name on it.
    BLJHB.
     
  27. stioc

    stioc United States Iron Registered Member

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    x2 - 100%
    I'm new here but this makes the most sense and no administration headaches either other than perhaps a separate moderated forum section for folks requested to appear once approved by the moderators.
     
  28. MattM

    MattM United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Let someone in need express his case. Let anyone with plenty send him a check. What's so difficult about that?
     
  29. Silverbullet

    Silverbullet Active Member Active Member

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    There are some I think more then me who already live on a very low income. SS disability is and has been my only income for years. We've been through extremely hard times of losing everything . Had it not been for family I don't know where we would be. Still now I try my best by selling things others throw out. I repair old mowers and sell them . Most of the time the hours repairing out do the money it brings in. But it's something to help pay for bills and used items. I've been lucky too , lots of inherited tools from all my grand parents and father. So I manage at this point. But now with this savere back pain I'm not able to get out to my shop. It's tite when the bills come but there paid. I am disabled not lazy. But living tite ill never be able to help with this type of needed funding help. Don't think less of those like me who aren't sponsor's or able to send donations. I'm not asking for monetary help , I've been able to survive ill never be able to advance and I've come to terms with my life. I never did anything wrong to get this way , so I guess it's my lot to live like a pig routing thru others unwanted items to live. There's one thing about it that steams me tho. The same people who buy used from me want the items cheap , when I call them for repairs I need there prices are ten times mine and no discounts to me. My wife gets so mad at me over my attitude to them but you get what you give. Example had a plumber to install a toilet and replace some floor boards . I bought the toilet , his bid to do it $1,500.00 . My nephew replaced the three foot of boards and installed the toilet in about three hours. He wouldn't take a dime. Now do any of you go above and beyond like that. That plumber new we had no money . It may be more help sometimes to just go give time to others. I've done many repairs for no money to ones I know who are worse then me. Before I was paralyzed an old man in a trailer park we lived in had no extras , I use to drive him to the food store he bought a bag of the cheapest things to survive . It was more then I could bare so I added extra meat and other staples . After we cked out I added a couple of bags to his order. Shortly after I got sick and in the hospital for the entire two years after he would mow our lawn put out the trash and more. He wouldn't take money but we shared our food with him. My reason for writing this sometimes help is more then money.
     
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  30. The Liberal Arts Garage

    The Liberal Arts Garage United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Back many years when I was very busy with paying work, I told my friends
    relatives and hangers- around that Iwould charge them full price for auto
    or other mechanical repair, but plumbing, wiring, and incidental repairs
    would be free in exchange for similar help. I kept. Most everyone undstood
    My reasoning.........BLJHB.
     

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