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Tig Welder

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kingmt01

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#31
Thanks for asking the question. At the moment I have no use for the info. But I like knowledge & I learned something.
 

Tony Wells

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#32
I'd be hesitant to actually do that. Main reason being that the 230 tap for the fan is likely to be a few gauges small to use as the input for the primary. Compare it to the incoming wires for the specified 460. I'd think much smaller.
 

amuller

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#34
Have you talked to Miller about this? If you get to the right person they can be very helpful. From looking at the parts list it appears that there is a different transformer part number for each voltage. On the other hand, it appears there is a 23o volt winding for the fan motor that would give the correct turns ratio for 230 volt input. Obviously the fan motor leads would not have the gauge to power the welder, but if that winding is in fact a segment of the main primary winding, and there is access to it at both ends, you might be able to do something--such as use it for a "center tap" and run two sections of the primary in parallel as one does with a dual voltage motor. Obviously don't mess with something like this unless you know exactly what you are doing at all times (!) One would need the winding data sheets from Miller, or to strip the transformer down, to really know what's what.
 

amuller

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#35
I'd be hesitant to actually do that. Main reason being that the 230 tap for the fan is likely to be a few gauges small to use as the input for the primary. Compare it to the incoming wires for the specified 460. I'd think much smaller.
Now, having done a post, I see this issue already addressed. Sorry about that.
 

sk1nner

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#36
20160206_130544.jpg 20160206_130555.jpg 20160206_130606.jpg 20160206_130619.jpg Ok I finally had some time in the shop to work on this. I cut the end off of the 230 tap on the coil, I found that there is 2 wires coming from the coil. I used my multimeter and it appears that the main 460 coil is made up of 2 separate coils joined in the "center" at the 230 tap. If this is correct could I connect the 2 coils up in parallel? I would then have a coil that winds on top of the other coil. As it came from miller the 2 coils are wired in series making the whole thing 460.
 
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amuller

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#37
For whatever reason, I can't see your pics except as the thumbnails.

If you have access to the center tap at the full gauge of the primary winding, there is a very good chance that you can run the two windings in parallel and be fine. It could be that the leads from the terminal block to the switch and then to the primary winding were sized for 460 and would be undersized for 230, so this is something to check.
 

sk1nner

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#44
My biggest concern is having a coil wrapped over the other coil. Can that cause any issues? From what I've read coils change voltage through induction? Will the "outer" coil cause any problems with the "inner" coil?
 

sk1nner

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#50
So I can wire the 2 coils (one wound over the other) in parallel, and my welder *should* be good to go at 230 ? I'm sorry to keep asking, I just don't want to damage anything. Thank you.
 

sk1nner

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#51
Should I be worried about coil resistance, or will it be correct when paralleled?
 

British Steel

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#53
Hi Skinner,

You need to be sure you have the coils in the right phase:

from the "start" of the 460v winding, at the 230v tap you need to wire the newly-free end that connects through to the "finish" end to the "start" wire, then the other new end (which will show continuity through to the "start") connects to the finish - so both windings coil the same way around the transformer core.

I've attached a Crap-o-CAD that should explain it better!

You can do a Proper Test to confirm if you're unsure, attach a small AC transformer to the secondary (arc) side of the transformer, not too many volts (you'll get quite a voltage increase), maybe 3v AC - 6v AC but with a few amps behind it (a good rating would be whatever the welder's minimum AC weld current is), and put the meter on AC on the mains side windings.

Connect what you think are the "starts" of the windings together, you should see little or (ideally) no AC voltage across the two "finishes" - if you see more than a few volts, swap one winding end-for-end and test again, if you suddenly have no volts showing - perfect, or you didn't join the wires up... If you have a lot more AC volts showing, swap it back how it was before!

Once you've got them what should be the right ways around, the 3v - 6v of AC into the secondary winding should deliver maybe 25 - 30v AC from the primary side as a final check.

As someone said, bear in mind that at full chat it's going to pull DOUBLE what it would on 460v, so size for 60+ amps - or keep the wick turned down!

Dave H. (the other one)

460-230.png
 

sk1nner

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#54
That is very useful information. That is how I thought it should be hooked up, but I'm no electrition so I didn't want to assume. I figured I needed the "start" of each winding together and each "end" together. Thank you for the help. I like the idea of the low voltage back feed test. I just need to figure out a power supply for it. I have plenty of dc power supplies but not sure about a ac, I'll figure something out. Once again thank you to everyone that had offered help.
 

sk1nner

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#55
Do you think I could use a dc power source? I've looked at every thing I can around the house and garage, I don't have any ac supplies. I was thinking if dc would work a 9 volt battery might work.
 

sk1nner

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#56
IT LIVES! I wired the coils the way David H showed. I checked the voltage on the secondary coil and it's at about 26 volts. Thank you EVERYONE, for the advice. Now to get the regulator working and my bottle filled and I can lay down some beads.
 

89yjsahara

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#57
Can you post pics or explain how you hooked the wires up for 230? I get the basic idea but do not want to let the magic smoke loose or possibly zap myself.
 

sk1nner

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#58
Please note this is how I did it on my Miller Econotig that was 460 single phase. I can not guarantee this will work with all Econotig's or any other welder.

The coil had 2 input leads. We will call them A and B. It also had a center tap for the cooling fan to relieve 220 volts. We will call that C.
What worked for me is I cut the connector off of C. When I did that I found that it was actually 2 leads joined with the connector. They are now called C1 and C2.

I used my meter to determine which wire (C1 or C2) was on the same coil as lead A. And made sure that I had the proper one for lead B. The way my welder was made they manufactured the 460 coil from a pair of 220 coils wired in series. I rewired the coils (and the fan) in parallel.
When it was all said and done I (after making sure I had the correct leads selected) wired lead A and C1 along with a fan lead to one side ofor the switch and lead B and C2 along with the other fan lead to the other side of the switch.

This worked for MY welder, I can not guarantee this will work on any other welder.

If you need it can make sure short video next week showing what I did. I hope my rambling makes sense.
 

sk1nner

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#59
You have to make sure you wire the "beginning" of each coil together and the "ends" of each coil together. Failure to do so can result in damage to the welder.
 
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