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Upper Midwest Scrapers And Rebuilders Hobby Club

Discussion in 'MACHINE RESTORATION & WAY SCRAPING' started by Uglydog, Nov 12, 2015.

  1. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Machinist Bedside Reader fans may recall Guy Lautard reference to Dennis Danich a Millright. I’ve been privileged to enjoy beginning to learn scraping and rebuilding under his auspice. Dennis would like to find 6 or 8 individuals who would like to learn and build on their scraping and machine tool rebuilding skills. His emphasis is always on understanding what and why.

    First project:
    Using his pattern making skills he is proposing that he hire a local foundry to cast 24 inch triangular straight edges. All participants will purchase one of these at his cost: $120. This is for a 24inch long, stress relieved, triangular gray cast straight edge with 90degree, 55degree and 35degree angles. Faces will be around 2.75inches. Note: this is a not for-profit venture. He is coaching me to do one pass milling on them and charge a very few additional dollars for my time. Each member of the group will have their own straight edge, and will be working on the same project and learning scraping and geometry together. Please understand that this is a club, not a class. We are accountable to each other. Dennis is only facilitating the learning. You will also need a scraping tool. An inexpensive tubular Anderson with HSS cutters would be fine.

    Dennis is having his knee rebuilt shortly after Thanksgiving. Then we need to build a pattern. The foundry wants 4-6 weeks to schedule and complete the job. Thus, our first session will likely not happen until January. Our first obstacle is to gage interest, and collect some down payments so that we don’t end up owning a dozen straight edges.

    Initially the plan is that we hold these sessions at my shop in Dayton MN. I have a 5footx5foot acorn table and a 36 inch cast plate. We believe that we can get everyone comfortably around the acorn table. Other locations will be used as they become available.

    It’s the expectation that after the initial session we would all work on the project at home, then reconvene to take work on triangles and the geometry. The long term goal is that we work on rebuilding an entire machine as a group. This suggests a long term time commitment to the group. Other than the straight edge costs there is no plan for ever charging a fee or paying for instruction.

    Please PM should you have interest, questions, or concerns. I will answer you directly and/or forward your contact information to Dennis for him to respond directly.

    Daryl
    MN
     
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  2. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I've already received a couple PMs.
    Dennis would like me to emphasize that while he wants us to learn scraping that's low hanging fruit. His ultimate objective is that we understand "machine tool geometry" and "tolerances". The big picture is that we work together to effectively use scraping and other methods to accomplish machine tool rebuilding.

    Scraping in a triangle is easy. Now let's scrape all 3 sides within tolerance to specific relative to each other!
    This is going to be great fun!!

    Daryl
    MN
     
  3. jeff_g1137

    jeff_g1137 United Kingdom Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hi
    I think this is great, if i was in the USA near you i would jump at the chance, i hope you get it going, good luck :eagerness::eagerness::eagerness:
     
  4. brino

    brino Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Daryl,
    What a great way to build comradery and knowledge.
    I wish I was closer too.....
    -brino
     
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  5. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Dennis and I have identified 0900 Saturday February 6th as our first session with February 20th as an alternative “Blizzard Day” option.

    Dennis encourages you to contact him at (edit: email removed for "bot" protection - please PM me I'll be pleased to share you his email) should you have questions. As a reminder: there are no dues, or tuition. He is expecting that everyone would invest in a hand scraper and steel cutters.

    Daryl
    MN

    Edit:
    I originally reported that Dennis email was .com
    It is .net
    I corrected it above.
    Sorry
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
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  6. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Dennis Danich sent this email to the people who have expressed some interest and for whom I have an email address.
    I've copy pasted it here.
    Please note Dennis is way to humble.
    I know hundreds of trained Instructors.
    Many Phds in education, others with Masters in Ed.
    All kinds of "Certified Instructors" in EMS and Fire/Rescue.
    Sometimes their teaching is.... well... lacking.
    Dennis is the real deal.
    The above comments are not intended to detract from the excellent teaching of other scraping and machine tool Instructors.
    I offer the above comments to highlight that Dennis isn't like your high school or college geometry Professor.

    From: Dennis Danich
    Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 11:04
    To: Daryl Doering
    Cc: .......................................
    Subject: Re: Scraping and Machine Tool Rebuilding

    I am a trained instructor so to help this along and to act as a FAQ I am writing outlines, as we collectively progress in this I will make notes for lesson plans. Daryl and Ben may recall me telling them at times I needed to stop and think how can I explain a skill that is automatic to me so it can be understood.
    From my experience I feel it is best to start scraping with high speed blades, carbide will follow later.
    Machine geometry will follow after you can scrape as then you can correct geometry errors.
    The initial outline follows.

    Course outline for scraping class 101
    History of scraping and fitting parts to build machinery
    The difference between qualitative and quantitative measurement
    Joseph Whitworth and creating flat surface plates
    Early scrapers marking medium and techniques
    Evolution of more modern methods in the 1800's creating plane surfaces and machine ways in the technique of systematic distribution of error

    1. Sharpening scrapers
    Techniques for sharpening blades and using different radii for different purposes

    2. Surface preparation and scraping strokes
    Historical use of scraping to make a smooth surface as opposed to making a truly flat or fitted surface to another part and comparing scraping to filing and other polishing techniques

    3. Marking medium an observation of blue spots
    Observing with marking medium tells you a lot of this takes practice determining if you have twist determining false readings and making corrective action

    4. Scraper handling
    Controlling the process of using the scraper by observing the width of the stroke you can generate by various angles of using the blade and how the radius of the blade affects the width of the cut

    5. How to use a straight edge
    Using straight edges to determine what you have to do to a part the straight edges initially can be ground straight edges and using scraped straight edges for marking parts for scraping

    6. Step scraping
    Using step scraping to correct tapers or hills or valleys on the part determining if you should scrape or machine

    7. Pull scraping
    Pull scraping techniques and using pull scraping for a distinctive pattern on the work

    8. Flaking or Frosting
    Flaking work to create oil pockets or put a distinctive decorative pattern on some areas of the machine
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
  7. terrywerm

    terrywerm New Member Liaison Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Getting on board on this thread. Thanks Daryl and Dennis!
     
  8. gi_984

    gi_984 Active User Active Member

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    Daryl,
    What is the approximate time line for the day? Start at 0900 until?
     
  9. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Probably 1200ish??

    Not sure that I still have you email address.
    Please PM me your address. I'll add you to the email thread.

    Daryl
    MN
     
  10. terrywerm

    terrywerm New Member Liaison Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Midnight?? Dang, I better bring beer. :drink:

    Just kidding. Noon sounds good. It will give enough time to make some progress but without getting too long.
     
  11. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Midnight is 2400. :)

    Daryl
    MN
     
  12. astjp2

    astjp2 United States Active User Active Member

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    Daryl, there is no such time, its 23:59, 00:00, 00:01...sorry I had to have some fun with that. It sounds like a great class, I am finding that scraping is very tedius...and the radio does not keep my mind occupied so I am switching off between scraping projects on my lathe to break up the monotony. Tim
     
  13. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    A
    Completely agreed. I can't figure out how anyone does this full time. Bouncing between projects is essential for me as well.
    However, I find it like laying down a TIG pad of beads, simply therapeutic with its quiet predictability. That's not to suggest I do it well - yet.
    On the other hand getting the geometry correct is still a wonder to me, and therefore completely engaging!

    Daryl
    MN
     
  14. terrywerm

    terrywerm New Member Liaison Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I was going to bring up the bit about there not being a 2400, but thought it best to leave it for someone else to poke you with, Daryl. :D

    I have not yet done any scraping, I just ordered a new scraper from Anderson last night. I do suspect that it will seem tedious to me also, but I also know that it does not work well for me to bounce between various projects. I am far better off finishing one before starting another if at all possible. It isn't too bad to have two or three projects underway at the same time, but any more than that is a bad thing for me.
     
  15. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious H-M Supporter-Premium

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    this i one great idea Daryl, i wish i were closer to attend
    please do me the next best, show me some pictures from the meetings so that i may feel like i was there by remote...:grin:
     
  16. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I believe that Dennis would find Skyping the sessions fun.
    PM if you want his email address.

    Daryl
    MN
     
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  17. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious H-M Supporter-Premium

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    PM sent!:grin:
     
  18. Karl_T

    Karl_T United States Active User Active Member

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    I'm praying for a blizzard of epic proportions :)

    I won't be home yet on Feb 6. Got my scraper on order. Need to get the cat at the kid's place (Elk River) about Feb 8 to Feb 10. Should I stop by for remedial instruction?
     
  19. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I'm no Instructor!
    However, I'll be happy to share tools and what I'm learning.
    Monday or Wednesday afternoons would work. I'm in Inver Grove Heights in the morning.

    Daryl
    MN
     
  20. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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  21. terrywerm

    terrywerm New Member Liaison Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    That's where I ordered mine. Should arrive by the end of the coming week I would think. No matter if it doesn't as it isn't going anywhere until Feb 6th anyway.
     
  22. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I'll have my wood lathe up and operable. I'll also have some large diameter wood stock, and copper caps should anyone want to personalize a handle.

    Daryl
    MN
     
  23. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Reminder this Saturday February 6th at 0900 our scraping sessions will begin.

    Please bring your Anderson Scrapers and 1gb thumb drive.

    Please consider bringing a beverage if you want something other than water or coffee.


    Please PM for my address and phone number.

    It's a cul-de-sac with three houses. Ours is the white one with the wrap around old-fashioned front porch. I'll park the red pickup at the curb in an attempt to highlight the location.


    Yesterday, I picked up some thick walled box tubing to lift the acorn table to a better height for the tall people.
    If you are of shorter stature, then please consider bringing some scraps of 2x4 and plywood so we can construct some "duck boards" to build up the floor.

    There has been some additional questions about the triangular straight edges. At this time they've not been made. I'm hoping the group will decide to have them cast. I don't know exactly what Dennis has planned.

    Please send any/all questions concerns.

    Daryl
    MN
     
  24. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    We will have another session in North Branch Minnesota on Saturday 8/20/16.
    If interested please PM me for details.
    Note: these are no charge sessions.
    Your only expenses will be scraping / rebuilding tools that you may choose to purchase from someone - somewhere.

    Daryl
    MN
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
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  25. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I think I've missed posting updates. As we have members who have elected not to become HM members we began a google group.
    Regardless, new members are welcome!

    Next meeting is January, 28th 2017 in Northbranch MN.

    Daryl
    MN
     
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  26. ddickey

    ddickey United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I'd really like to get up there sometime Daryl.
     
  27. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    We try to meet monthly.
    Well, try....
    Looking for regulars who want to work together to understand and perform machine tool rebuilding and all of its many facets.
    You are welcome to join us, no cost. Sessions are taught by a retired Millwright. Actually did this stuff....
    Looking for regulars serious about learning rebuilding. However, attendance is not taken, and an occasionals are welcome.

    Daryl
    MN
     
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  28. madmodifier

    madmodifier H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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  29. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Nothing wrong with the HSS. In fact because it doesn't require diamond wheels to sharpen it's arguably preferable. Unless you've go access to cool grinders.
    Consider a 1inch. However, we are certainly not going to inspect your scraper before being allowed in the shop!
    You might want to attend a session and get Dennis' recommendation. Long term you will want your own....

    Daryl
    MN
     
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