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Upper Midwest Scrapers And Rebuilders Hobby Club

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Uglydog

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#1
Machinist Bedside Reader fans may recall Guy Lautard reference to Dennis Danich a Millright. I’ve been privileged to enjoy beginning to learn scraping and rebuilding under his auspice. Dennis would like to find 6 or 8 individuals who would like to learn and build on their scraping and machine tool rebuilding skills. His emphasis is always on understanding what and why.

First project:
Using his pattern making skills he is proposing that he hire a local foundry to cast 24 inch triangular straight edges. All participants will purchase one of these at his cost: $120. This is for a 24inch long, stress relieved, triangular gray cast straight edge with 90degree, 55degree and 35degree angles. Faces will be around 2.75inches. Note: this is a not for-profit venture. He is coaching me to do one pass milling on them and charge a very few additional dollars for my time. Each member of the group will have their own straight edge, and will be working on the same project and learning scraping and geometry together. Please understand that this is a club, not a class. We are accountable to each other. Dennis is only facilitating the learning. You will also need a scraping tool. An inexpensive tubular Anderson with HSS cutters would be fine.

Dennis is having his knee rebuilt shortly after Thanksgiving. Then we need to build a pattern. The foundry wants 4-6 weeks to schedule and complete the job. Thus, our first session will likely not happen until January. Our first obstacle is to gage interest, and collect some down payments so that we don’t end up owning a dozen straight edges.

Initially the plan is that we hold these sessions at my shop in Dayton MN. I have a 5footx5foot acorn table and a 36 inch cast plate. We believe that we can get everyone comfortably around the acorn table. Other locations will be used as they become available.

It’s the expectation that after the initial session we would all work on the project at home, then reconvene to take work on triangles and the geometry. The long term goal is that we work on rebuilding an entire machine as a group. This suggests a long term time commitment to the group. Other than the straight edge costs there is no plan for ever charging a fee or paying for instruction.

Please PM should you have interest, questions, or concerns. I will answer you directly and/or forward your contact information to Dennis for him to respond directly.

Daryl
MN
 

Uglydog

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#2
I've already received a couple PMs.
Dennis would like me to emphasize that while he wants us to learn scraping that's low hanging fruit. His ultimate objective is that we understand "machine tool geometry" and "tolerances". The big picture is that we work together to effectively use scraping and other methods to accomplish machine tool rebuilding.

Scraping in a triangle is easy. Now let's scrape all 3 sides within tolerance to specific relative to each other!
This is going to be great fun!!

Daryl
MN
 

jeff_g1137

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#3
Hi
I think this is great, if i was in the USA near you i would jump at the chance, i hope you get it going, good luck :eagerness::eagerness::eagerness:
 

brino

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#4
Daryl,
What a great way to build comradery and knowledge.
I wish I was closer too.....
-brino
 

Uglydog

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#5
Dennis and I have identified 0900 Saturday February 6th as our first session with February 20th as an alternative “Blizzard Day” option.

Dennis encourages you to contact him at (edit: email removed for "bot" protection - please PM me I'll be pleased to share you his email) should you have questions. As a reminder: there are no dues, or tuition. He is expecting that everyone would invest in a hand scraper and steel cutters.

Daryl
MN

Edit:
I originally reported that Dennis email was .com
It is .net
I corrected it above.
Sorry
 
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Uglydog

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#6
Dennis Danich sent this email to the people who have expressed some interest and for whom I have an email address.
I've copy pasted it here.
Please note Dennis is way to humble.
I know hundreds of trained Instructors.
Many Phds in education, others with Masters in Ed.
All kinds of "Certified Instructors" in EMS and Fire/Rescue.
Sometimes their teaching is.... well... lacking.
Dennis is the real deal.
The above comments are not intended to detract from the excellent teaching of other scraping and machine tool Instructors.
I offer the above comments to highlight that Dennis isn't like your high school or college geometry Professor.

From: Dennis Danich
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 11:04
To: Daryl Doering
Cc: .......................................
Subject: Re: Scraping and Machine Tool Rebuilding

I am a trained instructor so to help this along and to act as a FAQ I am writing outlines, as we collectively progress in this I will make notes for lesson plans. Daryl and Ben may recall me telling them at times I needed to stop and think how can I explain a skill that is automatic to me so it can be understood.
From my experience I feel it is best to start scraping with high speed blades, carbide will follow later.
Machine geometry will follow after you can scrape as then you can correct geometry errors.
The initial outline follows.

Course outline for scraping class 101
History of scraping and fitting parts to build machinery
The difference between qualitative and quantitative measurement
Joseph Whitworth and creating flat surface plates
Early scrapers marking medium and techniques
Evolution of more modern methods in the 1800's creating plane surfaces and machine ways in the technique of systematic distribution of error

1. Sharpening scrapers
Techniques for sharpening blades and using different radii for different purposes

2. Surface preparation and scraping strokes
Historical use of scraping to make a smooth surface as opposed to making a truly flat or fitted surface to another part and comparing scraping to filing and other polishing techniques

3. Marking medium an observation of blue spots
Observing with marking medium tells you a lot of this takes practice determining if you have twist determining false readings and making corrective action

4. Scraper handling
Controlling the process of using the scraper by observing the width of the stroke you can generate by various angles of using the blade and how the radius of the blade affects the width of the cut

5. How to use a straight edge
Using straight edges to determine what you have to do to a part the straight edges initially can be ground straight edges and using scraped straight edges for marking parts for scraping

6. Step scraping
Using step scraping to correct tapers or hills or valleys on the part determining if you should scrape or machine

7. Pull scraping
Pull scraping techniques and using pull scraping for a distinctive pattern on the work

8. Flaking or Frosting
Flaking work to create oil pockets or put a distinctive decorative pattern on some areas of the machine
 
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terrywerm

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#7
Getting on board on this thread. Thanks Daryl and Dennis!
 

gi_984

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#8
Daryl,
What is the approximate time line for the day? Start at 0900 until?
 

Uglydog

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#9
Probably 1200ish??

Not sure that I still have you email address.
Please PM me your address. I'll add you to the email thread.

Daryl
MN
 

terrywerm

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#10
Midnight?? Dang, I better bring beer. :drink:

Just kidding. Noon sounds good. It will give enough time to make some progress but without getting too long.
 

astjp2

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#12
Midnight is 2400. :)

Daryl
MN
Daryl, there is no such time, its 23:59, 00:00, 00:01...sorry I had to have some fun with that. It sounds like a great class, I am finding that scraping is very tedius...and the radio does not keep my mind occupied so I am switching off between scraping projects on my lathe to break up the monotony. Tim
 

Uglydog

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#13
A
I am finding that scraping is very tedious...and the radio does not keep my mind occupied so I am switching off between scraping projects on my lathe to break up the monotony.
Completely agreed. I can't figure out how anyone does this full time. Bouncing between projects is essential for me as well.
However, I find it like laying down a TIG pad of beads, simply therapeutic with its quiet predictability. That's not to suggest I do it well - yet.
On the other hand getting the geometry correct is still a wonder to me, and therefore completely engaging!

Daryl
MN
 

terrywerm

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#14
I was going to bring up the bit about there not being a 2400, but thought it best to leave it for someone else to poke you with, Daryl. :D

I have not yet done any scraping, I just ordered a new scraper from Anderson last night. I do suspect that it will seem tedious to me also, but I also know that it does not work well for me to bounce between various projects. I am far better off finishing one before starting another if at all possible. It isn't too bad to have two or three projects underway at the same time, but any more than that is a bad thing for me.
 

Ulma Doctor

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#15
this i one great idea Daryl, i wish i were closer to attend
please do me the next best, show me some pictures from the meetings so that i may feel like i was there by remote...:grin:
 

Uglydog

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#16
I believe that Dennis would find Skyping the sessions fun.
PM if you want his email address.

Daryl
MN
 

Karl_T

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#18
Dennis and I have identified 0900 Saturday February 6th as our first session with February 20th as an alternative “Blizzard Day” option.
I'm praying for a blizzard of epic proportions :)

I won't be home yet on Feb 6. Got my scraper on order. Need to get the cat at the kid's place (Elk River) about Feb 8 to Feb 10. Should I stop by for remedial instruction?
 

Uglydog

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#19
I'm no Instructor!
However, I'll be happy to share tools and what I'm learning.
Monday or Wednesday afternoons would work. I'm in Inver Grove Heights in the morning.

Daryl
MN
 

terrywerm

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#21
That's where I ordered mine. Should arrive by the end of the coming week I would think. No matter if it doesn't as it isn't going anywhere until Feb 6th anyway.
 

Uglydog

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#22
I'll have my wood lathe up and operable. I'll also have some large diameter wood stock, and copper caps should anyone want to personalize a handle.

Daryl
MN
 

Uglydog

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#23
Reminder this Saturday February 6th at 0900 our scraping sessions will begin.

Please bring your Anderson Scrapers and 1gb thumb drive.

Please consider bringing a beverage if you want something other than water or coffee.


Please PM for my address and phone number.

It's a cul-de-sac with three houses. Ours is the white one with the wrap around old-fashioned front porch. I'll park the red pickup at the curb in an attempt to highlight the location.


Yesterday, I picked up some thick walled box tubing to lift the acorn table to a better height for the tall people.
If you are of shorter stature, then please consider bringing some scraps of 2x4 and plywood so we can construct some "duck boards" to build up the floor.

There has been some additional questions about the triangular straight edges. At this time they've not been made. I'm hoping the group will decide to have them cast. I don't know exactly what Dennis has planned.

Please send any/all questions concerns.

Daryl
MN
 

Uglydog

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#24
We will have another session in North Branch Minnesota on Saturday 8/20/16.
If interested please PM me for details.
Note: these are no charge sessions.
Your only expenses will be scraping / rebuilding tools that you may choose to purchase from someone - somewhere.

Daryl
MN
 
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Uglydog

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#25
I think I've missed posting updates. As we have members who have elected not to become HM members we began a google group.
Regardless, new members are welcome!

Next meeting is January, 28th 2017 in Northbranch MN.

Daryl
MN
 

ddickey

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#26
I'd really like to get up there sometime Daryl.
 

Uglydog

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#27
We try to meet monthly.
Well, try....
Looking for regulars who want to work together to understand and perform machine tool rebuilding and all of its many facets.
You are welcome to join us, no cost. Sessions are taught by a retired Millwright. Actually did this stuff....
Looking for regulars serious about learning rebuilding. However, attendance is not taken, and an occasionals are welcome.

Daryl
MN
 

Uglydog

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#29
Nothing wrong with the HSS. In fact because it doesn't require diamond wheels to sharpen it's arguably preferable. Unless you've go access to cool grinders.
Consider a 1inch. However, we are certainly not going to inspect your scraper before being allowed in the shop!
You might want to attend a session and get Dennis' recommendation. Long term you will want your own....

Daryl
MN
 

old toolmaker

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#30
Machinist Bedside Reader fans may recall Guy Lautard reference to Dennis Danich a Millright. I’ve been privileged to enjoy beginning to learn scraping and rebuilding under his auspice. Dennis would like to find 6 or 8 individuals who would like to learn and build on their scraping and machine tool rebuilding skills. His emphasis is always on understanding what and why.

First project:
Using his pattern making skills he is proposing that he hire a local foundry to cast 24 inch triangular straight edges. All participants will purchase one of these at his cost: $120. This is for a 24inch long, stress relieved, triangular gray cast straight edge with 90degree, 55degree and 35degree angles. Faces will be around 2.75inches. Note: this is a not for-profit venture. He is coaching me to do one pass milling on them and charge a very few additional dollars for my time. Each member of the group will have their own straight edge, and will be working on the same project and learning scraping and geometry together. Please understand that this is a club, not a class. We are accountable to each other. Dennis is only facilitating the learning. You will also need a scraping tool. An inexpensive tubular Anderson with HSS cutters would be fine.

Dennis is having his knee rebuilt shortly after Thanksgiving. Then we need to build a pattern. The foundry wants 4-6 weeks to schedule and complete the job. Thus, our first session will likely not happen until January. Our first obstacle is to gage interest, and collect some down payments so that we don’t end up owning a dozen straight edges.

Initially the plan is that we hold these sessions at my shop in Dayton MN. I have a 5footx5foot acorn table and a 36 inch cast plate. We believe that we can get everyone comfortably around the acorn table. Other locations will be used as they become available.

It’s the expectation that after the initial session we would all work on the project at home, then reconvene to take work on triangles and the geometry. The long term goal is that we work on rebuilding an entire machine as a group. This suggests a long term time commitment to the group. Other than the straight edge costs there is no plan for ever charging a fee or paying for instruction.

Please PM should you have interest, questions, or concerns. I will answer you directly and/or forward your contact information to Dennis for him to respond directly.

Daryl
MN
Hi Daryl,

I am a little late getting to this discussion but I have a question. What is the purpose of the 55 and 35 degree angles on the straight edge? Is it to be able to isolate working on just one surface of a dovetail at a time? Just curious.
Dick
 
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