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Vfd Issues With Grizzly 12x36 Belt Drive

Discussion in 'ELECTRICAL ISSUES - POWER YOUR MACHINES & SHOP' started by seanb, Dec 22, 2016.

  1. seanb

    seanb United States Active Member Active Member

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    I have recently installed a 2 HP 3 phase motor on my lathe along with a 2 HP TECO VFD from automation direct.

    The lathe slows down under all but the lightest cuts.

    for example at 46 hz took a light facing cut lathe slowed to a crawl.

    Is this a normal result of not running it a 60 HZ? It does the same thing at 60hz just not as bad.
     
  2. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    Did you set the VFD parameters to match the motor nameplate values? The VFD should maintain the motor speed up to the rated output of the motor or the VFD.

    Is the VFD a TECO or Automation Direct? They are not the same. What is the model number on the VFD?

    Also, I assume you are running on 230 Volts, is the motor wired correctly for low voltage?
     
  3. seanb

    seanb United States Active Member Active Member

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  4. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    What is the full part number on your VFD? It looks like the FM50 won't run a 2 HP motor. EDIT: In reading a bit more, I was wrong there, the FM50-202x will run a 2 HP motor

    I looked through the manual and I agree, there is no way to set the motor parameters. Never seen that before, looks like there is a reason that VFD was discontinued.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  5. CluelessNewB

    CluelessNewB Active Resistor H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The FM50 is an early design, it is NOT a sensorless vector VFD. It became popular because it was one of the first affordable VFD's. I personally don't think it is a good choice for any machine you wish to control the speed of. I do have one on a wood shaper but I run that at 60hz all the time. It was my first VFD. It's ok for that application. You really only have two parameters of significance that might help. F_18 (Motor rated current) and F_5 (V/F Pattern). I believe F_18 is actually only used for overload protection in this VFD. F_5 allows you to select different curves for Frequency vs. Voltage. I think you may want to set F_5 to "5".
     
  6. hman

    hman Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hello, seanb -
    Just this last summer I converted my Grizzly 12 x 24 lathe (DF1224G/G1003) to use a 1.5HP three phase motor and a Teco FM50-202-C VFD. It's worked very well, with no glitches.

    I've listed the parameters in the PDF below. As best I can tell, you should be able to set yours the same way, with the exception of P02, P18, and possibly P03, P04, and P29.

    Unless you have a braking resistor, your P02 should be left at something like the factory setting of 5 (seconds)
    Your start/stop, forward/reverse controls may differ from mine, so set P03 and P04 accordingly.
    You should set P18 to 100 for your 2HP motor. I set mine to 75 (%) for the 1.5HP.
    P29 is factory set, and may differ for your VFD.

    Rich -
    Hadn't heard that the FM50 was obsolete. I just bought mine this summer from Dealer's Electric.
     

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  7. CluelessNewB

    CluelessNewB Active Resistor H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I'm not the one who said they were discontinued, I believe you can still buy them from several sources. I just don't think they are a good choice for machines with varying loads that you wish to control the speed of. There are better choices available for those applications.

    There is one other parameter on the FM50 you can change that may help with slower speeds. F_13 "Torque Compensation Gain" controls the shape of the curve that F_5 uses. The documentation for this is a bit vague. The default is 0 and the maximum is 100 (0.0 -> 10.0 %), what this really means is not perfectly clear to me. I believe the higher the number the more voltage it will supply at lower frequencies (speeds).
     
  8. seanb

    seanb United States Active Member Active Member

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    Thanks hman and others for the replies I will try tweaking it a bit more, I noticed Last night that my link belt was slipping Is it possible to clean it it looks greasy?
    If I cant get the motor to run better can anyone reccommend a drive to use of the sensorless vector type thats not $500.

    I have the same drive on my mill, but its also a 2hp motor on a RF-31.
     
  9. LEEQ

    LEEQ United States Active User Active Member

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    Don't forget slowing the motor also reduces hp. I learned a little late that people put bigger motors on during these conversions to allow for this. Maybe some day I'll feel froggy and put my 2hp vfd/motor combo on my mill and get a bigger vfd/motor for the lathe.
     
  10. LEEQ

    LEEQ United States Active User Active Member

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    A couple more thoughts: one, Dealers Electric has good deals on motors, vfd's and combos. I have gotten two combos from them and have been very happy. two, think more along the lines of using a lower speed gear setting and increasing motor speed instead of dropping it. (within reason. motor man. can tell you the speed rating for your motor bearings)
     
  11. CluelessNewB

    CluelessNewB Active Resistor H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Teco N3, Teco 7300CV, Teco L510, Hitachi WJ200

    All except the Hitachi should be available for less than $250. The Hitachi will be a bit more than $300.
     
  12. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The FM50 should work, it is a 2Hp version and should have no issues with a 1.5Hp motor. The input voltage to the VFD nees to be 230VAC (or per the nameplate specifications). Check to see that you motor winding's are connected correctly and that the motor is wired for 230V. The FM50 may not be set in the proper frequency mode. This requires a complete VFD reset/reprogramming, and this is done by setting F_25 to 020 which will initialize the system to 60Hz. I would set F_2 to either 2.o or 3.o seconds, F_05 to 5 (high Torque), set F_12 to 6 (carrier frequency to 10 Khz), set F_13 to 10 for maximum torque, F_14 to 0 controlled deceleration, F_17 to 20.0%, F_18 to 150%, F_24 to 0. Automation Direct has very good tech. support, but I have not seen this model sold at their site for many years.

    The wj200-015sf is available for for $283 shipped.
    https://www.driveswarehouse.com/wj200-015sf-2526
    The Teco 7300CV is available for for $240 shipped.
    http://www.factorymation.com/CV-2002-H1

    I believe the new version of the Teco N3 is the 7300CV, I do not recommend the Teco L510 as I have read a number of posts where they have had performance issues with the drive. Also the L510 does not support an external braking resistor on the 230V version, and an external braking resistor is often needed on a lathe because of the larger rotating mass. There is also the Automation Direct GS3 VFD, which I believe is a repackaged Teco N3. These mid-priced VFDs offer a number of features and can be run in sensorless vector mode which allows bettor motor control/power over a wider operating range. Sensorless vector is a motor feedback system to the VFD so it can give you more stable RPM/power control. I would not buy a VFD through eBay, nor any of the generic Chinese VFDs for this application.

    In general, VFDs require some modifications to work with the lathe controls for safety features and to work properly with your E-Stop. Otherwise there is the possibility of the the lathe starting if the spindle direction was left on. There are different ways to prevent this. You always want to program the VFD so auto-restart with power failure is OFF. The WJ200 has a small power internal supply that can operate a 24VDC power relay to prevent this, there are also a few other ways to do this. I work mostly with the WJ200, they have been very reliable (I have yet to hear of one failing). The manual stinks, but I can help you with a schematic and programming parameters for the VFD. But it is important to note that VFDs do take some rewiring and programming to work properly with your lathe.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2016
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  13. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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  14. CluelessNewB

    CluelessNewB Active Resistor H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Both of these have been around for a few years, dealers seem to carry one but not the other. I personally think the N3 user manual is a bit more readable. The N3 has the advantage of a metal cover with knockouts that covers the electrical connections, which may not be an issue if you are mounting it (correctly) in an external enclosure. The dates on the N3 manual I have is 2006, and the 7300 is 2005 so if anything the N3 is newer but not by much!

    The N3 and the 7300CV both have momentary power loss detection and you can program them so they will not restart. No external components are required.

    And to add to mkjs's list:
    The N3 can be purchased here for $232 (on 12/23/2016)
    http://dealerselectric.com/N3-202-CS-U.asp
     
  15. tq60

    tq60 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Check your manual for single phase loading.

    Assuming you have single phase input.

    Most vfd that are single phase compliant will degrade due to less energy availability on the input.

    Our Allen bradley equipment shows usually a 1 hp degrade on smaller ones.

    Our 1 hp bp came with a 1 hp vfd and lousy bottom torque ( source has 3 phase power but machine varies peed was worn out)

    When we got our sb 14.5 it has a 2 hp motor and we used a 3 hp vfd per the chart and leave belts in a mid area and lots of power down to almost 1 rpm or so.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
     

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