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What respirator do you wear, when grinding metals with toxicity?

Discussion in 'SAFETY ISSUES & EQUIPMENT' started by ome, May 20, 2014.

  1. ome

    ome United States Active User Active Member

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    Hi Guys,
    I need advice to make sure I am using the correct respirator for the job.
    I have been told by a very nice gentleman when I first came to this forum, that the hazards of working with metal dust would be prevented with properly fitting a full or Half face respirator with two P- 100 hot pink pancake filters( the last 4 words I made up), when I would be grinding or sanding metal and even cadmium.
    I know there is not that much lead in 12L14, but I do not know about the leaded bronze which I turn into rollers on the lathe.
    Lead dust is .1 micron in size according to the chart online. P-100 filter 99.7% and I do not know the smallest they will filter, but the same gentleman had more recently told me that these filters are used for asbestos abatement.
    Asbestos is .3 microns in size.
    AM I being protected when wearing a half or full face mask with the P - 100 pink pancake filters?
    Any Advice is greatly appreciated,
    Jon
     
  2. TOOLMASTER

    TOOLMASTER you don't want to know Active Member

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    i have always used painters masks with carbon and cotton filters...paper masks are a joke..don't know why people even bother with those
     
  3. Ray C

    Ray C United States Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  4. DMS

    DMS United States Active User Active Member

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    The paper masks do work as rated. I also agree with Ray, the ones with the vent are both more comfortable and seal better.

    I recently got a half face mask, and it is even better. It is a 3M 6291 (that is the medium sized model from that series). The seal is soft and comfortable, and I get a decent seal, even with a beard. There are also a number of different cartridges that can be purchased. I have the pink P100 filters that have some amount of protection from vapors, but don't rely on them from protection from vapors; it mostly just removes some of the smell.

    As far as what type of cartridge, those pink p100 cartridges should be great for any particulates you encounter. For working with vapors, you will want something intended for vapors, or a forced ventilation setup. There are vapor rated cartridges for the mask listed above.
     
  5. Ray C

    Ray C United States Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    As far as the paper masks are concerned, you'll notice they all have a number like 85, 90 or 95 etc... That is the percentage of particulate matter they filter provided you fit it to your face properly. The rating is a test based on a national standard. Masks like this do not filter vapors or "organic" fumes suitable for automotive spray painting; for that you'll need to get a different type of unit that has replaceable cartridges. I've done fine with the simple ones and have them from several brands and I usually get the 90 or 95 rated units. The do work quite well if you spend a few moments to bend the metal nose-bridge to fit your face properly. Always get the kind that have two rubber straps. The really cheap ones with a single rubber band are pretty useless and don't even have the filtration rating system numbers on them.


    Ray
     
  6. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    All of the posts are good, accurate and appropriate. However, please understand that it doesn't matter the quality/rating of the mask and filter/bottle system if you don't have a good seal.

    The mask must have a good seal to your face or you will suck in air and all the nasties you are trying to avoid. Emergency Responders sometimes believe they are somehow special. My belief is that anytime someone is working in an environment that is a danger to life and health, those persons deserve appropriate PPE.

    OSHA Procedure Standard: https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=standards&p_id=9780

    Fit Test Video: https://www.osha.gov/video/respiratory_protection/fittesting_transcript.html

    Facial hair clarification: (https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=19237)


    Thank you,
    Daryl
    MN
     
  7. ome

    ome United States Active User Active Member

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    I was hoping you would post. I really appreciate your information. I had been warned by a friend of my wife's husband, who works for OSHA. IN A SMALL basement shop one or two class D fire extinguishers?
    Thanks for any advice,
    Jon
     
  8. TOOLMASTER

    TOOLMASTER you don't want to know Active Member

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    Like I always told my guys, if you can smell it you are breathing it...

    Binks mask, carbon fume with cotton dust filter
    373819_330356540322857_1509331728_n.jpg

    373819_330356540322857_1509331728_n.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
  9. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I am neither a Fire Inspector, nor Gods gift to fire mitigation.
    The following is merely my opinion:
    Class D extinguishers are formetal fires involving magnesium, sodium, potassium and sodium-potassium alloys. These metals are usually found at in the airplanes, auto body shops, auto part stores. Working with these metals? If so, then yes you should likely have a Class D. If not, why bother with the trouble and expense. A fresh ABC is likely very appropriate. I write fresh, because they should be inspected and "re-charged" (it's not just about the PSI, as the powder cakes at the bottom) as recommended. From what I understand the biggest problem with extinguishers is that people use them to fight room and contents fires, when they are best suited when it's still waste basket size. A second problem is that people delay calling 911 until their locate and deploy their extinguisher. Thirdly often times people are confused about how best to aim and deploy an extinguisher.

    I did a Google video search and found this. It seems appropriate.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw4uIiXUCY4
    However, I encourage you to contact your local fire department and ask if they would consider doing a demonstration and citizen training at a local community event. If they worked in conjunction with a local fire extinguisher supplier they might even sell some.

    Regarding how many. I had no idea. Thus, I did some more OSHA searching and found:
    https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/evacuation/portable_placement.html
    This seems to be a good and succinct link.

    I've got an extinguisher near my garage exits, as I want my egress clear and pre-planned.

    Again, consider asking your local fire department to offer training. The local inspector may even offer to do an unofficial inspection and offer advise, unless of course you have a business in which case the inspections are required (although they may not follow through depending on their resources).


    Daryl
    MN
     
  10. TOOLMASTER

    TOOLMASTER you don't want to know Active Member

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    I have co2 all around...one big bottle to flood the shop if needed..close the door and hit the valve..(siphon tank)
     
  11. ranch23

    ranch23 United States Active User Active Member

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    Don't forget all the wonderful resources we have available at places like MSC. Ask their technical support people, I have used them several times and if they don't know the answer they will get the manufacturer on the line.
     
  12. stevet

    stevet United States Active Member Active Member

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    If possible move your grinder outdoors. Place 2 decent size fans behind and above you blowing at your back and sides. I've done this several times and don't even get the dust on my hands. Then a paper filter works fine as back up.

    Stevet
     
  13. ome

    ome United States Active User Active Member

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    Hi,
    how much do those cartridges cost and don' t they get tossed in the trash at the end of each use?
    thanks,
    Jon
     
  14. moorepower

    moorepower Active Member Active Member

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    If you are just working with particulate the pink N-100 half masks are as good as you should ever need. There are several companies that have paper N-95 masks that have an exhale valve that also work very well but are much harder to seal. Remember with all masks, no facial hair that touches the sealing area. I have the fit test kit and when the 3M masks are the right size and are snug, I have never had one fail a fit test. NO BEARDS!
     
  15. ome

    ome United States Active User Active Member

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    Hi,
    just not clear on whether it is the P - 100 or the N - 100 catridge?
    Thanks,
    Jon
     
  16. samthedog

    samthedog Norway Active User Active Member

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    This is the most important thing when using masks. A standard breathing apparatus in the service was positive pressure with a demand valve so when you took your first breath, it would positively pressurize the mask so any areas that didn't seal lost air but nothing could flow in. With a non-positive pressurized filter mask, you need to ensure a good seal against the skin otherwise when you draw a breath, you will be pulling un-filtered air.

    A mask needs to be part of a larger safety and health philosophy though. Wearing a mask while grinding and painting, then not wearing it when you sweep or blow out the workshop is counterproductive. Keeping a clean, uncluttered workshop means it's easier to control dust and wipe surfaces clean. This is often a problem because those who use masks often store them in the open, where dust from sweeping settles in the mask, rendering the filter useless.

    Paul.
     
  17. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    These are wise words!!
    Daryl
    MN
     
  18. moorepower

    moorepower Active Member Active Member

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    Sorry it is P100
     
  19. ome

    ome United States Active User Active Member

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    Thanks,
    which test kit do yo have. They range from 170. To 280. and sweet or bitter. Saccharin is used as a sweet, but is carcinogenic.
    I do not know the bitter element they use.
    Where did you get your test kit?
    thanks,
    Jon

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    What does CO2 do to a metal fire?
    I thought only a sodium based product like in class D fire extinguishers were used in metal fires.
    Jon
     
  20. moorepower

    moorepower Active Member Active Member

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    I use the bitters test kit. I got nib on ebay for $50. I have to test for my business. If you are clean shaven and have the correct size mask and it is tight I personally would be satisfied if it were me. I have done enough test to see what works. Remember to us the alcohol wiped to clean an to seal in a bag or plastic tub when not using
     
  21. ome

    ome United States Active User Active Member

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    Thanks,
    I found a kit at mcmasterr-carr for 100. and uses bananna oil. I figure it is good to have , so we can all learn how yo put out mask on properly.
    Thanks,
    jon
     
  22. ome

    ome United States Active User Active Member

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    Hi,

    Could you please tell me where you got those reddish tinted looking goggles that seem to be good for grinding metals I've been trying to look for them at McMaster or eBay and had not had any luck at all
    thank you,
    Jon
     
  23. moorepower

    moorepower Active Member Active Member

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    You need a particulate mask for dust and a carbon mask for fumes. Painters masks are not as good at filtering dust. I just figured I would add that.
     
  24. Bluechip

    Bluechip Swarf Registered Member

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    I work in an oil refinery and we use the P100 + Multigas and that covers most things. Not sure on the cost per fiiter though might be expensive. I use the P100 and the 3M mask in my shop at home I find them way better than the paper masks.
     

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