Setup Help With Acer Dynamic 1340g

Keep trying to convert the Controls or throw in the towel and use the VFD only?

  • CONVERT - resistence is futile

    Votes: 2 100.0%
  • Lose the old and busted and stick with the new hotness -

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2

Mr.Miz

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Dec 27, 2016
Messages
45
Hello! The Acer Dynamic is my first lathe and I just purchased it about a week ago. I'm attempting to get my shop updated with a new 40 amp circuit, 220v, single phase, outlet to the lathe (This is what I have available currently). I have the power wiring, and conduit almost done. I've ordered and SMVector VFD (ESV222N02YXB) and it should be here in about 3 days.
View media item 95642
I have removed the control panel and was hoping to do a conversion very similar to the PM1340gt(http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...g-the-stock-control-board-and-switches.49022/) conversion on this site, but it's sounding like most people don't trust the contactors on used machines. Even in the condition of the posted pictures.
View media item 95648View media item 95647
I'm having a really hard time accepting the VFD as my primary control and scrapping the front panel controls. I will probably wire in a speed pot no matter what, but it's really hard for me to just "lose" the e-stop, foot break, and the rest of the controls on the machine. Maybe some of you can convince me I'm nuts?
View media item 95645
I think I'm going to plug away with the conversion just as a matter of practice. I only learn by doing and I've got a lot to learn.
Here are my goals:
  1. Add a new circuit to the shop (50% done already). I have the wire, a 40 amp dual pole breaker, and most of the conduit already for older projects so I'm harnessing my inner cable monkey.
  2. Move the lathe into place ( I've got it in the shop but it's still on the pallet). I've got a small loader but the lift capacity on it is only 1000lbs and this thing is 1500lbs so I need ideas? I do also have access to a massive loader but it's too big to fit in the shop but it can get the bucket in the doorway.
  3. Setup the VFD for Motor control. MAKE IT SPIN!
  4. The dreaded conversion. Get Lathe Controls working. E-stop, foot break, FWD-RWD, Jog, and add a speed pot the front.
  5. Get pilot and work lamp working
I'm going to eliminate the Coolant pump for now. My VFD is only rated 3hp and my motor is 3hp and the coolant pump is 1/8th. I'll come back to it once I'm actually turning and look at just getting a single phase 1/8hp motor or something like it. Let me know if there's a reason to go back and look at this again now?

Other small related projects are a VFD enclosure, Lathe cover (probably just plastic/tarp to start), and maybe a VFD stand. I'm a bit of a blended child of a wood elf and an iron dwarf so needless to say if there isn't wood floating in the shop air, then it's sparks and weld spatter. Sorry for the long first post. I just wanted to get started so the questions can be shorter from here on out. Let me know if I should include anything else for reference. Any advice you can give is appreciated as well as links for me to research. I'm going to need some convincing on the controls so throw me your opening arguments ;-)
 
Same gear box as my E lathe. I only have one lever at the top, which switches between low and high range. Low goes from zero to 300, high range 300- to top end, something like 1200 rpms. The controls are the same except for that white light. That is where my variable speed knob is. Don't know if it's a pot or what.

Once you get it running, do a check on threading. The threading chart on mine is wrong. I do a lot of threading between 14 and 32 tpi, and the letters are wrong, meaning A B C D settings shown aren't correct. I'll write down what is correct on mine this weekend if I remember and let you know. Maybe they corrected yours, but I talked with a dealer in Richmond VA and he sent me pics of what the new ones show, they are still wrong.
 
Congrats again Mr. Miz.

One thing for sure, you want to keep the foot brake and e-stop. My E-Lathe is a 3 phase vector drive like the one Stob in above post has. I don't use the coolant pump on mine, opting for a mister setup instead.

As for the threading chart, I have not noticed any discrepancies on it ? All the threads I have ever cut were fine.Stob, it would be interesting to compare the charts at some point.

Mr. Miz, as for unloading the lathe, can you set it on the floor with an engine hoist and place sections of metal pipe under it and roll it to location. That is usually the simple, and least expensive way to do it. I placed mine with a forklift as I have a fairly large shop and big shop doors.
 
I will take a pic of my thread chart too, post it all later.
 
Welcome to the forum. So a few thoughts on how to proceed.
1. There should be no change to the front controls and their basic functions, but if they get replaced depends on your how you want to proceed. You normally do not use the VFD panel controls in this application. The coolant pump runs at a fixed speed, so is not amenable to being run off of the VFD outputs, and in general you have two options: get an inexpensive VFD and use it to drive the 3 phase coolant pump at 60Hz, or replace the coolant pump with a 240VAC single phase version, the latter being the simplest and probably the cheaper of the two. You can still use the coolant contactor/thermal overload but the overload may need to be set to something like 0.45A since the current would be higher for single phase.

2. As previously mentioned, I do not recommend using used contactors for low level signals. I have tried this in the past and either it didn't work or the connection was intermittent.

3. In the simplest iteration, you could just replace the two main motor contactors with new 24VAC mini contactors that have the same NO/NC configuration. Remove the high voltage connections, reconnect the 24VAC connections and use them to switch the VFD RUN and forward/reverse inputs. For safety I would use two of its NO contacts on each contactor, terminal #4 of the VFD would connect to L1 and L2 of both the forward and reverse contactors, T1 of both contactors would go to VFD terminal 1 which issues the (start/run command), L2 of the forward contactor goes to terminal 13A (forward) and L2 of the reverse contactor goes to 13B (reverse command). Everything should work the same as before, two contactors will run about $30. https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Motor_Controls/WEG_Electric_Miniature_Contactors_(4-Pole)/9_Amp_(AC3)#Nominal_Coil_Voltage_s="24+VAC+(60Hz)"&start=0
RUN.jpg
The only wrinkle is dealing with the mechanical braking, since the VFD will want to brake the machine as it is programmed. So you can try it first try it and see how it works, you can disconnect the mechanical brake, or you can get a dual pole switch for the foot brake switch. With a dual pole switch, one NC switch block is connected as it was previously, when you press on the foot brake it goes open and cuts power to the run contactor. The other contact block which is NO is connected to the VFD input common (terminal 4) and would go to one of the inputs and be programmed to freewheel (not brake) the VFD. I can give some help on suggested VFD programming once you decide what you want to do.

4. You would need to add a speed pot on the front panel, anything in the 2-5K range, linear pot with a 3/8" panel hole. It would be connected to terminals 2, 5 and 6.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-B-Allen-B...entiometer-10-TOL-2000-2k-OHM-J-/302165595272
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLAROSTAT-JA1N056S502UA-5K-5000-Ohm-2-25W-POTENTIOMETER-NOS-/332027874870

5. You can replace the the current control board and use standard relays, and this would require a simple 12 or 24VDC power supply to run everything, it could also be used for your light which is 24V. The down side is it is pretty much a complete system rebuild and wiring specific to your VFD. I can draw up something for you, but it is time consuming, so let me know if it is something you are interested in.

Mark
 
Same gear box as my E lathe. I only have one lever at the top, which switches between low and high range. Low goes from zero to 300, high range 300- to top end, something like 1200 rpms. The controls are the same except for that white light. That is where my variable speed knob is. Don't know if it's a pot or what.

Once you get it running, do a check on threading. The threading chart on mine is wrong. I do a lot of threading between 14 and 32 tpi, and the letters are wrong, meaning A B C D settings shown aren't correct. I'll write down what is correct on mine this weekend if I remember and let you know. Maybe they corrected yours, but I talked with a dealer in Richmond VA and he sent me pics of what the new ones show, they are still wrong.

I suspect it is wrong too, the previous owner (Bass Pro's Gunsmith shop) almost completely rubbed off the thread chart. It's the only part of the lathe that looked like it got used. So it might make sense if it was wrong and they rubbed it off so it wouldn't get used. Thanks for the tip! I already have some threading projects lined up so I'll pay closer attention to that.
 
Congrats again Mr. Miz.

One thing for sure, you want to keep the foot brake and e-stop. My E-Lathe is a 3 phase vector drive like the one Stob in above post has. I don't use the coolant pump on mine, opting for a mister setup instead.

As for the threading chart, I have not noticed any discrepancies on it ? All the threads I have ever cut were fine.Stob, it would be interesting to compare the charts at some point.

Mr. Miz, as for unloading the lathe, can you set it on the floor with an engine hoist and place sections of metal pipe under it and roll it to location. That is usually the simple, and least expensive way to do it. I placed mine with a forklift as I have a fairly large shop and big shop doors.

That's actually a FANTASTIC idea! I didn't even think about that trick! I can borrow the big cat loader and lift it off the pallet and then I have some square tube, and round tube. Laid out for it. I haven't had to move any heavy equipment since I was a teen so good old tricks are like new to me again.
 
Welcome to the forum. So a few thoughts on how to proceed.
1. There should be no change to the front controls and their basic functions, but if they get replaced depends on your how you want to proceed. You normally do not use the VFD panel controls in this application. The coolant pump runs at a fixed speed, so is not amenable to being run off of the VFD outputs, and in general you have two options: get an inexpensive VFD and use it to drive the 3 phase coolant pump at 60Hz, or replace the coolant pump with a 240VAC single phase version, the latter being the simplest and probably the cheaper of the two. You can still use the coolant contactor/thermal overload but the overload may need to be set to something like 0.45A since the current would be higher for single phase.

2. As previously mentioned, I do not recommend using used contactors for low level signals. I have tried this in the past and either it didn't work or the connection was intermittent.

3. In the simplest iteration, you could just replace the two main motor contactors with new 24VAC mini contactors that have the same NO/NC configuration. Remove the high voltage connections, reconnect the 24VAC connections and use them to switch the VFD RUN and forward/reverse inputs. For safety I would use two of its NO contacts on each contactor, terminal #4 of the VFD would connect to L1 and L2 of both the forward and reverse contactors, T1 of both contactors would go to VFD terminal 1 which issues the (start/run command), L2 of the forward contactor goes to terminal 13A (forward) and L2 of the reverse contactor goes to 13B (reverse command). Everything should work the same as before, two contactors will run about $30. https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Motor_Controls/WEG_Electric_Miniature_Contactors_(4-Pole)/9_Amp_(AC3)#Nominal_Coil_Voltage_s="24+VAC+(60Hz)"&start=0
View attachment 142515
The only wrinkle is dealing with the mechanical braking, since the VFD will want to brake the machine as it is programmed. So you can try it first try it and see how it works, you can disconnect the mechanical brake, or you can get a dual pole switch for the foot brake switch. With a dual pole switch, one NC switch block is connected as it was previously, when you press on the foot brake it goes open and cuts power to the run contactor. The other contact block which is NO is connected to the VFD input common (terminal 4) and would go to one of the inputs and be programmed to freewheel (not brake) the VFD. I can give some help on suggested VFD programming once you decide what you want to do.

4. You would need to add a speed pot on the front panel, anything in the 2-5K range, linear pot with a 3/8" panel hole. It would be connected to terminals 2, 5 and 6.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-B-Allen-B...entiometer-10-TOL-2000-2k-OHM-J-/302165595272
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLAROSTAT-JA1N056S502UA-5K-5000-Ohm-2-25W-POTENTIOMETER-NOS-/332027874870

5. You can replace the the current control board and use standard relays, and this would require a simple 12 or 24VDC power supply to run everything, it could also be used for your light which is 24V. The down side is it is pretty much a complete system rebuild and wiring specific to your VFD. I can draw up something for you, but it is time consuming, so let me know if it is something you are interested in.

Mark

Thank you!
1. I right now I'm leaving out the coolant pump with the plan to replace the motor once I'm actually up and running.
2. 3. and 4. I'll get those ordered once I have my shop wiring and the VFD in.
5. I'll save that for if I just can't wrap my head around 2,3, and 4. I may have to learn by building it from scratch but I don't want to take up your time until I've thoroughly given up on 2,3, and 4. I can't believe how helpful everybody is on this forum! I live well outside normal civilization so it is almost impossible to get local help. Everybody's willingness to help on this forum is truly appreciated.
 
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