Setup Help With Acer Dynamic 1340g

Keep trying to convert the Controls or throw in the towel and use the VFD only?

  • CONVERT - resistence is futile

    Votes: 2 100.0%
  • Lose the old and busted and stick with the new hotness -

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2
Got the power done today and I'm going to try and move it into place tomorrow. I'm hoping I can get it off the pallet with the big CAT loader and sit on a bunch of 1/2 conduit I have left from the wiring. Fingers crossed.

Still waiting on the VFD. It made if from MA to IL today. Excited to get started.
 
Got the power done today and I'm going to try and move it into place tomorrow. I'm hoping I can get it off the pallet with the big CAT loader and sit on a bunch of 1/2 conduit I have left from the wiring. Fingers crossed.

Still waiting on the VFD. It made if from MA to IL today. Excited to get started.

Miz, I'm not real sure the electrical conduit tubing is heavy wall enough. Maybe if you have several pieces it might work. I was thinking like schedule 40 black pipe. Be careful, don't want to turn it over. Lathes are very top heavy.
 
IMG_0489.jpg

The threading chart, that is wrong. Through trial and error, here is the correct settings:

14-ADRW
16-BCQX
18-BCTZ
20-BCRX
24-ACPX
28-BCRW
32-ACQX
 
Miz, I'm not real sure the electrical conduit tubing is heavy wall enough. Maybe if you have several pieces it might work. I was thinking like schedule 40 black pipe. Be careful, don't want to turn it over. Lathes are very top heavy.
Funny you should say that about it being top heavy! I got it moved to day and there were no accidents. I knew it was top heavy but I thought I had it figured out, I lifted it with the loader at the door and thought everything was great. I pulled out the pallet and for what ever reason it shifted right as I got it out from under. I almost had to change my shorts. Luckily it just tilted back a little but it was enough for me to jump. I sat it down on the 1/2" conduit and though it took a long time I rolled it into place. I have pictures I'll working getting them uploaded.

Now it's on to the VFD.
Just out of curiocity what are you all using for way oil and gear oil. The gear well is low and I need to clean and oil the ways. I was planning on just going to Tractor supply and getting some hydraulic oil but wanted to check. I can't find the oil listed in the manual for sale anywhere. It says Tellus Oil #27 for the head stock, Shell Tellus #27 for gear box( I assume it's the same), Shell Tonna #33 in the apron, and light machine oil/way lube on he ways. All I know about oil is my vehicles need it, and you shouldn't put that oil on a salad. ;-)
Let me know what you use and where you get it from..??
Pictures incoming soon.
 
A few notes on the above information. Seems to be a number of variations, and probably versions of the manual. The Acer site does have a download copy for the 1340G. The threading/feeding tables are a bit different then the picture above, so worth doing some scribe cuts on stock to verify the TPI. Manual download for the Dynamic model: http://www.aceronline.net/acergroup/manuals/manual-el-dyn1340g_1440e.pdf or for the VFD E-lathe model http://www.aceronline.net/acergroup/manuals/manual-el-el1440v.pdf . It is interesting that the thread chart for the E-Lathe (VFD) is even different then the name plate and what you have indicated. The other note is looking at the schematic for both machines and how they address the wiring when converted to VFD operation and the connections for the coolant, fan, etc. The VFD model is a real beauty and well implemented.

On the Dynamic 1340G, you can use the power light hole for the VFD pot, you will either need to make a bushing 3/8" hole to 22mm for a standard pot to fit or you can buy a 22 mm speed pot. You still need an indicator light to show that the machine is powered. I would suggested getting a lighted Jog or E stop switch and connecting the current power light 24VAC to the indicator lamp. The switches usually are standard 22mm (the E-Stop could be 30mm), so something like this switch for the Jog button could be used for both Jog and a power ON light.
https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...ushbuttons_Flush_-a-_Extended/LED/GCX1202-24L
https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...dicators/22mm_Metal/Potentiometers/ECX2300-5K
https://www.automationdirect.com/ad..._Indicators/22mm_Metal/Potentiometers/ECX2640

The oils mentioned are a bit antiquated terminology, but for the most part there are modern day ISO weight equivalents. Note that there are various nomenclature for oil viscosity and they have different properties at different temperatures, ISO, AGMA, SAE motor Oil, SAE Gear Oil, API... they use different nomenclatures and have numbers/weights are not interchangeable. It is controversial about which oils can be used in machines (lathe, mill), any oil is better than none, but try to use the appropriate oil for your type of machine to ensure its longevity. When you consider that you change the oil maybe once a year, it pays not to scrimp a few dollars to get an automotive oils instead of a proper machine oils. I have attached an updated chart which gives the recommend oils for the Acer lathes and your model.

Headstock and gearbox uses Tellus 27, the modern day would be an ISO32 or ISO 46 hydraulic or circulating gear oil, non detergent. (examples: Mobile DTE 24 or 25, Mobil DTE Light or DTE Medium). All readily available at local farm supply stores, or online.

Apron Tonna 33, is a bit of a strange duck. Normally the Tonna was Shells version of way oil, so a bit stickier. It is not uncommon to use way oil in some aprons, but in general I usually see a standard ISO 68 hydraulic/gear oil used. The equivalent would be Mobil DTE 26 hydraulic oil or Mobil heavy medium circulating gear oil which are both ISO 68.

On the ways and horizontal sliding surfaces I would recommend Vactra #2 or any ISO 68 way oil, the addition of tacifiers and film properties of way oil allow surfaces to float on each other, yet not get gummy and have chips stick to it.

Work out what you want to do sequentially, nice to see you got the machined moved without mishap. You can never be too careful, so do not rush it.
Mark

Oil Grade System.jpg
Oil Cross Reference Chart.jpg
 

Attachments

  • ACER Lathe Lubrication Oil Chart.pdf
    9.7 KB · Views: 7
A few notes on the above information. Seems to be a number of variations, and probably versions of the manual. The Acer site does have a download copy for the 1340G. The threading/feeding tables are a bit different then the picture above, so worth doing some scribe cuts on stock to verify the TPI. Manual download for the Dynamic model: http://www.aceronline.net/acergroup/manuals/manual-el-dyn1340g_1440e.pdf or for the VFD E-lathe model http://www.aceronline.net/acergroup/manuals/manual-el-el1440v.pdf . It is interesting that the thread chart for the E-Lathe (VFD) is even different then the name plate and what you have indicated. The other note is looking at the schematic for both machines and how they address the wiring when converted to VFD operation and the connections for the coolant, fan, etc. The VFD model is a real beauty and well implemented.

On the Dynamic 1340G, you can use the power light hole for the VFD pot, you will either need to make a bushing 3/8" hole to 22mm for a standard pot to fit or you can buy a 22 mm speed pot. You still need an indicator light to show that the machine is powered. I would suggested getting a lighted Jog or E stop switch and connecting the current power light 24VAC to the indicator lamp. The switches usually are standard 22mm (the E-Stop could be 30mm), so something like this switch for the Jog button could be used for both Jog and a power ON light.
https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...ushbuttons_Flush_-a-_Extended/LED/GCX1202-24L
https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...dicators/22mm_Metal/Potentiometers/ECX2300-5K
https://www.automationdirect.com/ad..._Indicators/22mm_Metal/Potentiometers/ECX2640

The oils mentioned are a bit antiquated terminology, but for the most part there are modern day ISO weight equivalents. Note that there are various nomenclature for oil viscosity and they have different properties at different temperatures, ISO, AGMA, SAE motor Oil, SAE Gear Oil, API... they use different nomenclatures and have numbers/weights are not interchangeable. It is controversial about which oils can be used in machines (lathe, mill), any oil is better than none, but try to use the appropriate oil for your type of machine to ensure its longevity. When you consider that you change the oil maybe once a year, it pays not to scrimp a few dollars to get an automotive oils instead of a proper machine oils. I have attached an updated chart which gives the recommend oils for the Acer lathes and your model.

Headstock and gearbox uses Tellus 27, the modern day would be an ISO32 or ISO 46 hydraulic or circulating gear oil, non detergent. (examples: Mobile DTE 24 or 25, Mobil DTE Light or DTE Medium). All readily available at local farm supply stores, or online.

Apron Tonna 33, is a bit of a strange duck. Normally the Tonna was Shells version of way oil, so a bit stickier. It is not uncommon to use way oil in some aprons, but in general I usually see a standard ISO 68 hydraulic/gear oil used. The equivalent would be Mobil DTE 26 hydraulic oil or Mobil heavy medium circulating gear oil which are both ISO 68.

On the ways and horizontal sliding surfaces I would recommend Vactra #2 or any ISO 68 way oil, the addition of tacifiers and film properties of way oil allow surfaces to float on each other, yet not get gummy and have chips stick to it.

Work out what you want to do sequentially, nice to see you got the machined moved without mishap. You can never be too careful, so do not rush it.
Mark

View attachment 142767
View attachment 142770
Thanks Mark I've got some shopping to do!
 
Now for the move pictures. First off I would like to say for any of those who reach this post via google or any other method. I would NOT recommend doing it this way. This was pretty much a cobbled version and it worked without major error however there were a few seconds where I was pretty sure I was about to tip over the lathe when lifting it off the pallet. The 1/2 electrical conduit worked fine though I would not recommend that, either, as it's cumbersome. So if you have no other way I guess just be aware that this way could work but if you can find a better way do it or wait till you can.

So I borrowed a big earth mover loader and stuck the bucket in the main doors but that's all I could get in:
View media item 95659 from this picture the red line at the top is the top of the door and here you can see the bucket in the shop. Reminds me a of a T-Rex sticking it's head through a building in some big budget movie.
View media item 95660So with the bucket in I hooked it up to some straps and tried to get the straps perfectly plumb so there wouldn't be any swing.
View media item 95661View media item 95662Then I lifted. As expected the control/chuck side was heavier. I should have probably taken the chuck off to reduce the weight, but in the heat of the moment that never crossed my mind. I did put bags of pea gravel on the opposite side to try and do some counter balancing but it wasn't very effective.
View media item 95663So with the lathe off the pallet about 1/2" I removed the pallet and that's when things got scary. Everything was out of the way, but the weigh just started to tilt it back. it only slide maybe 6" but I just had to stand back and watch because there was no way I was going to put my body anywhere near it. It stopped. I checked my shorts then I put down the 1/2 conduit and lowered it on.
View media item 95664View media item 95665View media item 95666View media item 95667
Rolling it was very slow and you MUST be slow because it shouldn't be moving while your switching out the conduit from front to back. It will catch your gloves and then you have to back it off to get your glove out. Fingers beware. So after all that it is happily in it's new home.

View media item 95668
And that is my move. It was successful an the 1/2 conduit was fine, but don't do it the way I did. Be smarter.
 
Welcome to the forum. So a few thoughts on how to proceed.
1. There should be no change to the front controls and their basic functions, but if they get replaced depends on your how you want to proceed. You normally do not use the VFD panel controls in this application. The coolant pump runs at a fixed speed, so is not amenable to being run off of the VFD outputs, and in general you have two options: get an inexpensive VFD and use it to drive the 3 phase coolant pump at 60Hz, or replace the coolant pump with a 240VAC single phase version, the latter being the simplest and probably the cheaper of the two. You can still use the coolant contactor/thermal overload but the overload may need to be set to something like 0.45A since the current would be higher for single phase.

2. As previously mentioned, I do not recommend using used contactors for low level signals. I have tried this in the past and either it didn't work or the connection was intermittent.

3. In the simplest iteration, you could just replace the two main motor contactors with new 24VAC mini contactors that have the same NO/NC configuration. Remove the high voltage connections, reconnect the 24VAC connections and use them to switch the VFD RUN and forward/reverse inputs. For safety I would use two of its NO contacts on each contactor, terminal #4 of the VFD would connect to L1 and L2 of both the forward and reverse contactors, T1 of both contactors would go to VFD terminal 1 which issues the (start/run command), L2 of the forward contactor goes to terminal 13A (forward) and L2 of the reverse contactor goes to 13B (reverse command). Everything should work the same as before, two contactors will run about $30. https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Motor_Controls/WEG_Electric_Miniature_Contactors_(4-Pole)/9_Amp_(AC3)#Nominal_Coil_Voltage_s="24+VAC+(60Hz)"&start=0
View attachment 142515
The only wrinkle is dealing with the mechanical braking, since the VFD will want to brake the machine as it is programmed. So you can try it first try it and see how it works, you can disconnect the mechanical brake, or you can get a dual pole switch for the foot brake switch. With a dual pole switch, one NC switch block is connected as it was previously, when you press on the foot brake it goes open and cuts power to the run contactor. The other contact block which is NO is connected to the VFD input common (terminal 4) and would go to one of the inputs and be programmed to freewheel (not brake) the VFD. I can give some help on suggested VFD programming once you decide what you want to do.

4. You would need to add a speed pot on the front panel, anything in the 2-5K range, linear pot with a 3/8" panel hole. It would be connected to terminals 2, 5 and 6.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-B-Allen-B...entiometer-10-TOL-2000-2k-OHM-J-/302165595272
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLAROSTAT-JA1N056S502UA-5K-5000-Ohm-2-25W-POTENTIOMETER-NOS-/332027874870

5. You can replace the the current control board and use standard relays, and this would require a simple 12 or 24VDC power supply to run everything, it could also be used for your light which is 24V. The down side is it is pretty much a complete system rebuild and wiring specific to your VFD. I can draw up something for you, but it is time consuming, so let me know if it is something you are interested in.

Mark
Hey Mark I just wanted to confirm the 2 contactors you linked me are CWC09-00-40V04 and CWC09-00-22V04? 1 X 4 N.O. and 1 X 2 N.O. 2 N.C. I'm not familiar with the terms at all so I want to make sure I get the right parts.
 
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