Models for grinding HSS Lathe Tools

mikey

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In a recent thread by @Darkbluesky, http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...tools-ideas-of-what-to-buy.62043/#post-511618, @ttabbal joked about sending me blanks to be ground into lathe tools ... he was joking! But it got me to thinking ... yeah, I know it's not a good thing when Mikey gets to thinking ... but it got me thinking that reading about how a tool is ground and having a decent tool in your hands that you can see and touch are two different things.

So, what if I ground a set of tools from 3/8" mild steel keystock (just to discourage some bozo from actually trying to cut something with the models) so people could hold it in their hands to look at. You could use them to plop onto your tool rest to see what the rest angles should be and maybe how your hands have to align to grind the tool. You could also buy some keystock and duplicate them for a permanent reference, and then pass them on to the next guy who wants to have a look.

I'm thinking of making THREE sets of these model tools and mailing them out to guys who are interested. We would need to figure out a list if there are more than three guys interested in seeing them, and YOU GUYS need to sort out how to keep track of these things. I would guess one to two weeks of holding time per person would be reasonable and the guy who has them would pay to flat rate ship it to the next guy on the list. Naturally, the only guys who can get on the list would be members of the HM forum.

As to which tools to include in the set, I'll leave that to you guys. We can discuss it here and see if we can come to some consensus. I will probably write a set of notes with details on how each tool is ground and why the angles are what they are and how you can modify them to better suit your needs; these notes would be posted to this thread.

I don't know if this is of interest to anyone but on the off chance that it is, let's talk about this and see if we can make it real. I'll spring for the keystock, grind the models and send them out. After that, you guys need to sort out how to get them distributed. The last guy on the list can hang onto them until some other HM member contacts them or you can send it back to me so I can do the same.

Let me be very clear about one more thing. The models will be of tools as I grind them for use in my shop on my lathe(s). It is one way, not necessarily the right way or the only way. My hope is that it will help you to find your own way of grinding tools that work for you.

Thoughts?

Mikey
 
I think that would be an awesome idea. Possibly grind a standard LH, RH, threading tool, and ??? I for one would be very interested in actually being able to touch a tool that has the potential to work instead of guessing from pictures.

Okay, thanks, Todd. Are you thinking a general purpose RH tool, a roughing tool or ... ? I was thinking maybe a RH general purpose tool, a RH knife (facing) tool and a threading tool. A LH version is just a mirror image that you can sort out easily. I'm okay with whatever you guys feel the need for.
 
I like your thinking, much better then my newbie thoughts. only reason I mentioned a LH tool was for some it may be hard to grasp the mirror image thing. I really have enjoyed your posts on tool grinding and can grind a tool that will cut but to be able to touch a proper tool and see it in my own hands would just be cool. I am in the process of getting ready to build a belt grinder with tool sharpening as the primary reason. I hope more guys chime in on this soon!
 
I like your thinking, much better then my newbie thoughts. only reason I mentioned a LH tool was for some it may be hard to grasp the mirror image thing. I really have enjoyed your posts on tool grinding and can grind a tool that will cut but to be able to touch a proper tool and see it in my own hands would just be cool. I am in the process of getting ready to build a belt grinder with tool sharpening as the primary reason. I hope more guys chime in on this soon!

Thanks, Todd. Yeah, I think it might be helpful to actually hold a tool in your hand that, if reproduced in HSS, will actually work the way it is intended to work. All of us, to some extent, are visual learners and if we do this then I hope it works out okay.

As for the mirror image thing, I'll write it up so that you can't possibly misunderstand how it is done. I'm listening, Todd and will do what I can to make this work for you.
 
Mike, the idea is great , I would love to own a RH facing/turning bit that you have ground but I'll be honest with you, for a newbie like myself , this bit will be something to look at and compare other bits with periodically as a reference piece, it is not something I could let go after a short while. if you remember I bought a "training set" from LMS but it is a basic set and I still would like to have a single bit made by you for my own personal use.
I know it may sound selfish but that's how I feel about it.
 
I think that is a great idea. I've been grinding my tools for some time but have fallen into bad habits resulting in non-standard tools (my own special misshapen grinds). They seem to work, but I'm not sure why.
It would be nice to compare those to a properly ground tool.
 
great idea Mikey.
if you see and know what a good example of a hand sharpened tool is, it is much easier to reproduce one :grin:

Thanks, Mike! For you experienced guys, this may not be of interest but I remember all too well what my tools looked like when I started - they were pretty bad!!!

I actually had a set of pre-ground tools from Sherline and it helped but what I didn't know was that those tools were ground to the typical geometry found in a tool angle table and I couldn't take a decent cut with them on my Sherline lathe. A 0.020" deep cut in 12L14 steel resulted in chatter and it took a long time, experimentation and frustration to figure out how a tool cuts. Now I can triple that 0.020" deep cut in 12L14 mild steel with my Square Tool and have no chatter on a Sherline lathe; the only thing that changed is the geometry of the tool. I will say that those original Sherline tools allowed me to hone my profanity skills, though!
 
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