What atomizing gas to use for a diesel fired boiler light off?

If I recall correctly, the old Stanley steamers had a hand pump on them to pump up fuel pressure for cold starts, similar to pumping up the pressure on a Coleman camp stove. Maybe a pressurized fuel tank could be set up to provide enough pressure to push the fuel through the nozzle and atomize it at least until steam pressure is built up.

That's an interesting idea but this boiler has an "air" powered atomizer. The oil is gravity fed to the center nozzle and "air" is blown past in a venturi fashion drawing out the fuel and spraying it in to the firebox of the boiler. So there is no way to pressurize the fuel to spray it. Using the propane in what I call a "limp flame" mode just burning out of the atomizer may generate enough heat to boil the water and build about 10 pounds of steam pressure to switch over to steam atomization of the diesel. All good idea's but so far I'm basically down to the Initial atomization of the diesel with nitrogen which works or the propane that I still have to try.

Keep the idea's coming.
 
Well gentlemen, while I have been out running the car and learning the boiler systems you all have been busy with idea's here. I have to say "FanMan" and Benmychree" may have hit on something - Propane. For those that have followed this thread this little car was built by a master machinist that passed away last year. All his secrets and ideas' went with him. I have been solving the mysteries and puzzles of this car, engine and boiler and one little unknown is in the two pictures here. The first one is a top down picture of a little metal ring that is about 4" in diameter that is secured in the corner of the rear of the car by a hand pump. The second picture shows a one pound can of propane that fits perfectly in this little metal ring. Also the round shape of the bottom of this one pound cylinder of propane matches perfectly to the wear pattern in the wood where it sits. Also in the picture you see a steel braded line that has my shop air fitting on the end of it (this is what I start the fire with our pressurize the system to test run the engine). But the question is............. Does a one pound cylinder of propane sit there and this steel braded line attach to the regulator of that propane bottle? Why couldn't a low flow of propane be used to atomize the diesel or maybe the boiler is initally fired with propane only to get up maybe 20 pounds of steam pressure. Then the propane fire is secured and the burner relit with diesel and steam? As I mentioned, this boiler is very basic and the systems are simple but the mystery of what sat in that little steel ring and the steel bradded line remain. So today's project is to see if propane will work. I'll report back for sure. But keep the idea's coming.

Lisa

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I think you've just worked it out, I'm sure you'll find that very successful, You'll also find that getting that propane bottle filled is possible almost anywhere.

What pressure does the boiler run at, and have you checked the safety valves. i'm sure you will find that a steam boiler has to be tested , certified and licensed, on a regular basis.
 
I think you've just worked it out, I'm sure you'll find that very successful, You'll also find that getting that propane bottle filled is possible almost anywhere.

What pressure does the boiler run at, and have you checked the safety valves. i'm sure you will find that a steam boiler has to be tested , certified and licensed, on a regular basis.

I think the propane solution will work. Have to try it and I'm trying to figure out what the original builder had in mind with all that he put together is the task at hand.

The boiler is a water tube type with a test pressure of 300 pounds. The safety lifts at 200 and I tested it. Before I built the first fire I hydro'd the boiler to 300 pounds and all's well there. In the state of Oregon they no longer require "hobby" boilers to be certified but I am a member of the Northwest Steam Society and the Early Day Gas Engine & Tractor Association and both organizations have very strict hydro and test standards before the machine can be shown or run at any event. The State of Oregon will do test and certifications on request and I intend to have that done annually also. I have a marine Fireman/Water Tender's license and I am fully aware of the dangers here and certainly will have this boiler certified by all the listed organizations; not only for my safety but the safety of everyone else. But I appreciate the caution advice as this is dangerous stuff if you're not careful with it.

I appreciate your thoughts here "Downunder Bob".

Best regards,

Lisa
 
I think the propane solution will work. Have to try it and I'm trying to figure out what the original builder had in mind with all that he put together is the task at hand.

The boiler is a water tube type with a test pressure of 300 pounds. The safety lifts at 200 and I tested it. Before I built the first fire I hydro'd the boiler to 300 pounds and all's well there. In the state of Oregon they no longer require "hobby" boilers to be certified but I am a member of the Northwest Steam Society and the Early Day Gas Engine & Tractor Association and both organizations have very strict hydro and test standards before the machine can be shown or run at any event. The State of Oregon will do test and certifications on request and I intend to have that done annually also. I have a marine Fireman/Water Tender's license and I am fully aware of the dangers here and certainly will have this boiler certified by all the listed organizations; not only for my safety but the safety of everyone else. But I appreciate the caution advice as this is dangerous stuff if you're not careful with it.

I appreciate your thoughts here "Downunder Bob".

Best regards,

Lisa
Looks like you've got it all covered Lisa, I'm a retired marine engineer, so thought I'd throw it in just incase.
Often on some of the larger marine boilers I worked on in the past we would have a lighting up burner that used diesel fuel with atomising air until we had about 20 psi the we'd switch to heavy fuel (heated ) and steam.

If the propane is not successful you might look at Savarin's idea of a kerosene lighting up burner based on a primus type burner, or an old fashioned plumbers blowtorch. Fairly simple to make a home made one using a bicycle pump for the air. I made one when I was about 12 to fire a hobby boiler.
 
Well Downunder Bob, on some of the older ships I worked on we'd use diesel pumped by an electric powered pump to spray the diesel through the B&W burner tips and fire one boiler until we had about 50 pounds and then we would pump the heavy oil through the fuel oil heaters to get it how enough to burn then switch over to heavy oil. It was quite a process and you and I remember that. In the good old days ports would have shipside boilers to supply the steam to start the systems. But the diesel was an after thought to get underway.

I have successfully used the nitrogen to spray the diesel in my little boiler and it only takes about 10 minutes to get enough steam to switch over. But the small 30 scf bottle only holds about maybe five starts. The small two pound propane bottle fits the mounting ring that the original builder had installed in the car and I'm thinking that is what he had in mind for a cold "remote" (away from home) start. I can't wait to try it but some other projects have bumped this steam car project back in line. But I'm anxious to try it and the propane should work too and may be cleaner too.

Now on the little "primus type" burner that is a workable idea too but I would have to slip that in the firebox, light it and let it get me about 20 pounds on the gauge and then secure that burner and remove it. Then with the steam to atomize the diesel, relight the boiler on diesel and off I go. All excellent idea's and I may get to try them all and see what works best.

I so appreciate the ideas and the cautions.

Best regards,

Lisa
 
Well Downunder Bob, on some of the older ships I worked on we'd use diesel pumped by an electric powered pump to spray the diesel through the B&W burner tips and fire one boiler until we had about 50 pounds and then we would pump the heavy oil through the fuel oil heaters to get it how enough to burn then switch over to heavy oil. It was quite a process and you and I remember that. In the good old days ports would have shipside boilers to supply the steam to start the systems. But the diesel was an after thought to get underway.

I have successfully used the nitrogen to spray the diesel in my little boiler and it only takes about 10 minutes to get enough steam to switch over. But the small 30 scf bottle only holds about maybe five starts. The small two pound propane bottle fits the mounting ring that the original builder had installed in the car and I'm thinking that is what he had in mind for a cold "remote" (away from home) start. I can't wait to try it but some other projects have bumped this steam car project back in line. But I'm anxious to try it and the propane should work too and may be cleaner too.

Now on the little "primus type" burner that is a workable idea too but I would have to slip that in the firebox, light it and let it get me about 20 pounds on the gauge and then secure that burner and remove it. Then with the steam to atomize the diesel, relight the boiler on diesel and off I go. All excellent idea's and I may get to try them all and see what works best.

I so appreciate the ideas and the cautions.

Best regards,

Lisa

Lisa were you on merchant ships or navy, I spent most of my working life on merchant ships starting as engine room hand and retiring as 1st Engineer with many hours of study in between at 3 different Uni's. My last ship was a 136,000 T crude oil carrier flying the Australian flag, owned by Shell Australia.

The thing I like about the primus type burner is all you need is some kero or even diesel would work so makes you very independent, no gas bottles to worry about.
 
I did a short career back in the 70's with merchant ships but it was tough for a woman in the engineering department. But I had the education and could do the job and that's all that mattered. After I retired I volunteered on a retired Liberty ship and that brought me back to my roots doing a watch on the plates there. All wonderful memories and now I'm taking that experience to something far simpler with this little car. But you understand where my caution comes from.

The primus type burner is very interesting and I'm going to have to work on aquiring one of those to try. As you point out being "independent" and being able to build steam with what I have on hand is important. Some friends who have steam boats start the fire on wood, but this little car doesn't have an ash pan and again carrying a supply of wood is impossible. I'll work around it and I got some great idea's from you guys. Thanks again.
 
I'd love to see a video of it running when you get the chance.

If you can find and old style plumbers blowlamp would be very suitable, the type with a small tank and a built in pump. Or You can make a simple primus type burner. You just need a container that can hold the fuel and can be pumped up to 20 or 30 psi, a bicycle pump will do. A screw on cap for filling also for releasing air pressure when you are finished. some small bore copper tube to fashion the burner and heater section. I made one when I was a kid for the nozzle I just put a sewing pin in the end of the tube then bashed the end in with a hammer around the pin , then pulled the pin out and it worked. it would be easy to fit a proper nozzle.
 
For the OP - is there a chance we'll get to see this project at the Great Oregon Steam-Up coming the end of July in Brooks?

Enquiring minds and all that
 
I would also love to see it, but not planning to visit the USA in the near future, so please post some pics of it running, when you can.
 
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