Spring making, coils folding over... help?

I did not read everyones inputs just now,so I don't know if i maybe missed it,but what kind of wire do you use for making springs......spring wire????
 
I believe how the wire pays out from the canister may be you problem. The wire as it pays out of the tin, instead of rolling out/off as it would if it were on a spool rolling/turning on a shaft, is coming out/off the end of the central axis. This imparts a twist in the wire which builds up as your coils get longer.

Is it possible for you to remove the wire from the tin and place it on a shaft and allow it to pay off in a "rolling" fashion?

If you are a fisherman, it is equivalent to how fishing line pays out on a "spinning reel" vs a "bait casting reel".
 
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If I can add to DAT510 reply, feed the wire from the bottom or outside of the roll not the inside. And feed to the bottom of your mandrel. This should eliminate any twist in the wire. (It may work from top of roll to top of mandrel but I am not sure)
By the way, I have spent lots of years winding and spooling wires and cables, from small electrical to 1 1/2" high strength steel cables.
Hope this helps
 
I'm going to disagree with Jubil on one point, yes take the spring wire from the outside of a spool, not the inside of that can, but go from bottom of spool to top of mandrel or vice-versa, the reverse of the existing curvature seems to make windings a better fit (or does for me when winding transformer coils etc.)

You haven't said what they're for yet - reverb tank?

Dave H. (the other one)
 
I did not read everyones inputs just now,so I don't know if i maybe missed it,but what kind of wire do you use for making springs......spring wire????
Piano wire.

Is it possible for you to remove the wire from the tin and place it on a shaft and allow it to pay off in a "rolling" fashion?

If anyone knows how I can make this possible, much appreciated! I could imagine creating some kind of larger canister, if that would help. But the thing about the canister is that it stops the wire from expanding outwards, by holding it inwards by the external wall of the canister. If I cut the straps holding the 500g could together when it is not already in the canister, it will I believe explode into a mass of tangled spaghetti-like mess. I have no idea how I could put it on a roll, due to this (its tendency to want to expand to a very large curvature). Any ideas?

feed the wire from the bottom or outside of the roll not the inside.

Have you ever used these 500g coils and canisters? They are designed for the wire to come out of the central hole, I don't think there is any option to change that. The wire can't come out another way it seems.

And feed to the bottom of your mandrel. (It may work from top of roll to top of mandrel but I am not sure)

I would think bottom-bottom and top-top would be the same. But I do get the principle of not reversing the curvature - basically winding large coils onto mandril to make smaller coils, in the same plane, right? I'll try to make that setup really aligned on my next attempt. But I guess I might have to replace the canister with something? Like a bigger canister, maybe three times the diameter or something? Do you think that might help?

I'm going to disagree with Jubil on one point, yes take the spring wire from the outside of a spool, not the inside of that can, but go from bottom of spool to top of mandrel or vice-versa, the reverse of the existing curvature seems to make windings a better fit (or does for me when winding transformer coils etc.)

Oh, ok reverse the curvature? Is this a hot topic, or do people have success with both? Or do each have specific advantages and disadvantages? And, several people have said to take the wire from the outside. But, with a 500g could of wire that has no spool, how to I set up a spool? I can imagine winding it onto a spool somehow but wouldn't it just try its best to unravel? With great force? Or is there some proceedure? If anyone has any vids or pics to show how I can do this, that would be great!

Or, if spools of good wire for this already exist, can anyone give me any link to where to buy? (UK would be best but even if elsewhere at least I can see what you guys mean). Smallest possible that would still work would be good, to save on costs. I don't fancy having to buy like 10kg of wire or something, if that's avoidable!

Many thanks guys
 
Wire has to be taken past its elastic limit in order to create a permanent deflection. When paying wire out in a direction perpendicular to the plane of the coils, the twist is not relieved. As more coils are payed out, the situation worsens. For a short spring, this isn't a problem as only a few coils are payed out. This is definitely seen in the fishing line analogy and in a coiled garden hose and in coils of electrical wire.

A possibility would be a wire straightener. The ones that I have seen consisted of a series of small opposing rollers which take the wire past its elastic limit , nullifying the original stresses. This approach would work if there were a large number of springs to wind but for a one off, probably not worth the effort.

Another approach would be to mount the original container to a platform, free rotate as wire was payed out. It wouldn't relieve to original stresses but it should prevent the corkscrewing and multiple coils are payed out. A wooden disk to which the container could be attached and an axle running through a set of bearings should do the trick.

A final possibility would be to remove the required amount of wire for a spring and hang the coils on a loosely fitted mandrel with the plane coils roughly oriented in the same plane as your spring coils. A 2" diameter spring with 100 coils would require about 630" of wire. I would just count the number of coils of the relaxed wire to calculate how much. If my relaxed stock settled into 24" diameter coils, I would figure on 2" x 100 turns/24" = 8.3 coils and add 10% for 9.3. 9 coils would do it. I would expect nine coils to pay out without getting tangled.
 
I have no idea if this would work, but I've seen a similar problem with 3D printers using loose filament. One trick I saw people use successfully was to get a hanging basket for plants or other decorations and hang it with a swivel. Place the filament in there, pulling from the center. As it pulls coils loose, the basket rotates preventing the coils from tangling etc.. I don't think it would help with bending past the elastic limit, but it might help relieve the twist as it comes off the coil.
 
Here's a video of a coil winder I use to make coils for medical devices. These coils are 1m+ in length made from 0.001"-0.003" diameter wire. Coil OD's are in the 0.010" to 0.015". In the video you can see the wire being paid off in a "rolling" fashion to prevent twisting of the wire and thus imparting that twist into the coils. The carriage programed with the desired pitch, and is typically set to lag slightly behind the leading edge of the coil as it's wound. This insures the coil loops are stacked (Zero Gap). If the carriage was to lead the coil, it results in an ever so slightly open pitch.

Looking online there appear to be a number of companies in the UK which will supply wire on a spool or in rolls, such that one does not need to pay out the wire from the side, thus imparting a twist in the wire.

http://www.knighton-tools.co.uk/acatalog/MUSIC_PRECISION_BRAND_WIRE.html
 

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I am not familiar with the wire canisters that you are using. Just putting in my $0.02 worth. Never the less, I think it would be better if you can find a way to feed from the outside of the spool.
 
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