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12z Version 2.0

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coolidge

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#1
I waved goodbye to the old 12z mill this week...in a cross pattern while shaking holy water on the crate. Welcome to my 12z version 2.0 thread!

Rigging - the way they ship diagonally on the pallet you can't get under it with an engine hoist so I rigged it to my Harbor Freight chain hoist. Those lifting straps are rated 6500 lbs each so no worries.



Here I have it rigged to the engine hoist for lifting onto the stand. Note the 1.5 inches of aluminum blocks under each corner, this lifts the mill high enough to clear the engine hoist.



Hoisted up onto my custom built stand safe and sound. Its still slathered in shipping grease and oil but so far finish appears to be MUCH improved from the first mill. The micro feed is smooth and the ACME screws are well lubricated. No sign of rust anywhere.

Note I retained the Leeson motor and electrical from the first mill, I waiting on some electrical accessories from McMasterCarr to arrive before re-installing on this mill.



Well now what do we have here? I'm thinking positive and dropped $1,200 on some mill accessories hoping this mill is at least as good as Bill's!



I raided Enco, the rotary table and tailstock was already on sale and I used a 20% off discount code in addition to that. Feels like I stole it! I gave the table a quick cloth wipe down but this stuff is otherwise still mucked up with packing grease.



Here's a comparison shot, I wasn't sure about the 8" rotary setup, my old rotary table was a 10" I'm glad I went with the 8" I think its sized better to this size mill.



Dang these power feeds are BIG, way bigger than they look in the puny Enco pic. That's the 3HP Leeson motor for scale. These are made in Taiwan and the finish is quite nice.

At 20% off I got carried away and purchased a 2nd unit for the Y axis...ah...um...well...FAIL! These are designed to clamp onto the end of the table, there's nothing to clamp onto for the Y axis. I'll think on it but my gut feeling is engineering a solution may not be worth the effort, we'll see. I'll get starting on cleaning this weekend stay tuned.
 

Conan

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#2
Hi Coolidge,

What happened to the first mill? I didn't see another thread on it.

Thanks,

Conan
 

coolidge

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#3
There was a list of quality issues and we both finally threw our hands up on that mill.
 

tmarks11

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#4
Good to hear that round 2 is going better.

(and there you go flashing the picture of the strong hand welding table at us again)
 

coolidge

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#5
I should make it my avatar then follow you around the forum = evil!
 

wrmiller

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#6
Ah...this mill looks MUCH better.

I managed to lift mine with my shop hoist, but only after whacking off the corners of that pallet. :D

Looking forward to your impressions as you get it cleaned and set up.

Quick question? How long are those lifting straps you are using and where did you get them? I had already determined that lifting this thing would have been SO much easier with the motor removed, and now that I have the belt drive installed it is literally two bolts to get it off so this is how I want to lift my mill off it's stand when moving time comes.
 

darkzero

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#8
Yup, hope this one meets your expectations over the first one. I was wondering how you were going to adapt the second power power feed for the Y axis. It's much different than a BP but didn't want to say anything & wait & see. I'm curious to what your solution will be.
 

wrmiller

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#9
Yup, hope this one meets your expectations over the first one. I was wondering how you were going to adapt the second power power feed for the Y axis. It's much different than a BP but didn't want to say anything & wait & see. I'm curious to what your solution will be.
I was thinking of getting a regular Y-axis, vertical power feed like those on a BP or clone and making a different bearing/screw support if need be to mount it to the front of the base. But then I'd have to cut a big chunk out of the front of my chip tray, so back to the drawing board. There is access to the Y-axis screw from the back of the column. A motorized mechanism back there would leave the handwheel up front for manual control.

One of the last times I talked to Paul at CO I was semi-joking about maybe doing the full CNC conversion just so I could get power feed on each axis and use the manual controls/jog for positional control. Extreme overkill, and it would take the (to me) fun out of cranking the handles. I deal with computers all day, and the last thing I want to do is sit in front of one drawing lines just to make a simple cut.
 

tmarks11

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#10
Extreme overkill, and it would take the (to me) fun out of cranking the handles. I deal with computers all day, and the last thing I want to do is sit in front of one drawing lines just to make a simple cut.
Not that bad. Use an pendant (aka "cranking handles") to position the table to where you want to start the cut. Type the instructions right in the MDI line "G01 X20 F20"... and watch it cut your piece. No need to draft simple stuff up in CAD. Use the wizards for things like circular and rectangular pockets (which just requires you to type in X and Y values and it spits out the g-code for you). Anything you can do on a manual machine, you can do using the encoder and the MDI on a cnc mill... only faster and with better cut quality because you maintain constant feed rates.

my turn to be evil...
 

wrmiller

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#11
Hey Tim,

Yea, 'pendant' was the word I was looking for but all I could think of was the 'dongle thingie on the end of the cord'. ;)

But...that's an expensive option just to get power feed on all three axis. :eek:
 
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coolidge

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But...that's an expensive option just to get power feed on all three axis. :eek:
Just shorten that to "But that's an expensive option" and you hit the nail on the head. You can spend a LOT of money on one of these mills without any difficulty, easily more than the mill cost. I have to remind myself daily its a manual mill its a manual mill.

The other day my McMasterCarr shopping cart...I started off needing just a $12 PG cord grip and the next thing you know my shopping cart had $800 of stuff in it. I said whoa hold on here and trimmed it back to $275. The main item was a $220 steel electrical enclosure, 20x20x8 and that was the cheaper enclosure. You can easily spend $330-$500 just on an enclosure. The delete list...cable carrier $180 very cool but is it really needed? No. I started off thinking about adding a better 10k pot for the VFD and pretty soon I had a pile of stuff in my cart to build a CNC like swiveling pendant. Meanwhile I'm daydreaming about flood coolant and a machine enclosure. lol

I fear its only the looming lathe purchase that is keeping spending on the mill in check. If I had a brain I'd hit the emergency stop on all machine spending and just save for a Haas MiniMill2.
 

coolidge

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#13
Yup, hope this one meets your expectations over the first one. I was wondering how you were going to adapt the second power power feed for the Y axis. It's much different than a BP but didn't want to say anything & wait & see. I'm curious to what your solution will be.
Yes that 2nd power feed purchase was a DOH on my part.
 

tmarks11

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The main item was a $220 steel electrical enclosure, 20x20x8 and that was the cheaper enclosure. You can easily spend $330-$500 just on an enclosure.
Take a look art Platt Electrical. They are a good source of Hoffman enclosures. Of course, if you want something that has a quality hinged door, NEMA 4 rating, nobody is selling that cheap.
 

JimDawson

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Automation Direct is another good source for enclosures.
 

coolidge

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Hey guys thanks yes I looked at Platt and AD, the issue is the depth of this dang VFD drive. I needed 8.5 inches of depth minimum which gets you into some pretty expensive enclosures. I considered mounting it sideways in a shallower panel but that seemed sloppy, I know that it would irritate me until I ripped it all apart and purchased the proper depth enclosure. lol Hey do me a favor and see my electrical thread I just started in the electrical forum thanks!
 

wrmiller

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#17
Hey coolidge,

I just received my panel from Automation Direct. 8" deep by 12"x14" for a lot less than 200 bucks. I'm going to bolt the VFD directly to the back of the box which gives me plenty of clearance (about an inch) at the front. Just FYI...

DSCN4328.jpg
 

coolidge

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Bill is that 8 inches with the door or without? With that cable that attaches to the front of the Danfoss on the 12z I need 8.5 inches minimum. Here's the one I ordered from McMasterCarr, total depth including door about 9.1 inches, its 20x20 inches NEMA 3R 14 gauge steel. Of course now it looks like I will be getting rid of that cable so I should have plenty of room. This thing must be rated Explosion Proof, McMasterCarr says it weighs 50 lbs and charged me $42 in shipping. :burned up:
 
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coolidge

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Here's a progress report in pictures, this is it for tonight tomorrow I'll have to go raid Platt Electric for a few things.

I got the PG16 cord grip in for the Leeson motor, the plated brass version was only $12 so I opted for it vs plastic.



I had this cord grip pointing straight up which would be ideal for the power cord moving up/down, but that probably wasn't kosher if a liquid ran down the cord. On the other hand its completely sealed so I may turn the box around and point it up anyway.



I installed the motor with some stainless bolts...I can't help myself I like stainless steel.



I dub this electrical enclosure the New Jersey, yeah you could mount gun turrets on it. Its a bit larger than it looked online.



I also drilled, tapped, installed the VFD. It looks like I can control on/off, forward/reverse, and spindle speed via the VFD with a box of buttons and switches mounted to the side of the head or on a pendant.
 

wrmiller

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Bill is that 8 inches with the door or without? With that cable that attaches to the front of the Danfoss on the 12z I need 8.5 inches minimum. Here's the one I ordered from McMasterCarr, total depth including door about 9.1 inches, its 20x20 inches NEMA 3R 14 gauge steel. Of course now it looks like I will be getting rid of that cable so I should have plenty of room. This thing must be rated Explosion Proof, McMasterCarr says it weighs 50 lbs and charged me $42 in shipping. :burned up:

/QUOTE]
Sorry, brain lockup! The VFD for the 1340 is what I was thinking of which is smaller front to back. I've no plans to put an enclosure on the mill.
 

coolidge

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The 2nd round of electrical components are inbound...have I mentioned I hate the cost of electrical? :cussing: The price tag was getting out of control so I reeled it back in. I'm not really going hog wild on this stuff but I bet I'm north of $900. Part of that was re-wiring my single phase supply, I upped it to 4 wire 10 awg 30 amp 220 vac so some wire for the panel, a new 4 conductor twist lock outlet and plug, big ass heavy 28 foot flex cord, cord grips see that's how you get to $900 on this stuff.

When the smoke cleared I settled on a simple 3 push button configuration Forward, Reverse, Stop, with a pot for spindle speed. Of course as is typical with electrical you buy one thing then the other five things that one thing requires so push button enclosure, wire cable, relays, relay sockets, DIN rail. :cussing:

I did splurge on my spindle speed pot, I ordered this 22mm Eaton with the built in scale for $97.


After deleting the cable carrier from my cart several times, I felt the motor and push button cables were going to flop around otherwise so I bit the bullet and added that $118 item.



I decided this enclosure was the best fit...after already ordering another enclosure which again is typical of buying electrical.



I settled on these flush push buttons in red, green, and blue with the appropriate NO/NC contact blocks.


Of course a bunch of other stuff, cooling fan, wire duct, control cable, cord grips, terminal blocks. I think this setup will be high quality, the components will out live me, but its not fancy just for the sake of being fancy. No rows of DIN mounted terminal blocks I used the old fashion type at 1/4 the cost. No panel mounted tach, no jog button. We'll see how it comes together this weekend.
 

tmarks11

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#22
For your big enclosure, I recommend you get some of that plastic cable raceway duct stuff. Makes it so much easier to cram all the wires in there in a way that looks halfway decent. I am talking about the gray ducting below with all the wires running in through the individual fingers.

IMG_0087_zpswo3hhruj.jpg
 

coolidge

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#23
Tmarks that looks like the control panel for the G0670 16x40 lathe, did you buy one? I did pick up some of that slotted wire duct.
 

tmarks11

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#24
I wish. Although I probably would have been happy with a G0506 (but I decided that I would save the $$ to buy Tormach's CNBC lathe).

No, that was the picture I took in Bellingham. It was just handy to explain what I meant.

You know, having the VFD really empties out the electrical cabinet. Since you don't need separate contactors for forward and reverse, etc. My g0709 has about 3x as much junk jammed in there.
 

coolidge

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#25
The first batch of components arrived today, I'm pretty happy with the Eaton pot its turns smooth as butter, feels hydraulic, not too stiff or loose just right. The Danfoss pot on the VFD in comparison had three problems, its tiny, it only has about 180 degrees of rotation vs 270 for the Eaton. The Danfoss pot is also so loose it made fine adjustments pretty annoying.



Here's a pic for size comparison



Nurse, #2 scalpel please...
 

coolidge

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#26
Well its coming together slowly but surely, I still haven't cleaned off the shipping grease.



Here's those laser cut legend plates I ordered after another member posted a link.



I picked up some garage hooks sold at Lowes to hang the power cord on.



The cabinet wiring is getting there, after buttoning up the motor and push button boxes tonight this should go pretty quick. Just the control wires and relays left. That enclosure fan was not that expensive and is quite the brute, cast aluminum and aluminum fan blades.
 

tmarks11

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That is where the big cabinet helps. Really hard to stay neat when you try to shove it in too small of a cabinet... and then you end up with ventilation problems.

Looks great.
 

dave2176

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#29
Coolidge,
What is the source of the cooling fan? Is it 110v?
Dave
 

coolidge

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Coolidge,
What is the source of the cooling fan? Is it 110v?
Dave
Yes its 120vac, I selected it because at 28 decibels it was one of the quietest fans listed. Also I was wrong, the blades are steel not aluminum, $27, from McMasterCarr http://www.mcmaster.com/#1976k41/=wrapkn plus $4 for the stainless grill http://www.mcmaster.com/#19155k125/=wraqsa you will also want one of these I failed to order this and had to remove the quick disconnect leads on the fan and solder on some wires. http://www.mcmaster.com/#19155k142/=wraukv
 
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