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14" Delta Rockwell metal/wood bushing material?

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Siggi

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#1
Hey y'all,

I'm restoring what's probably a 70s Delta Rockwell bandsaw. She's clearly had use and abuse through the years, was pretty caked up with chips-in-cutting-oil, and the base was badly rusted and pitted. The upper wheel bearings were pretty ratty, the blade guide bearings were seized, and the guide blocks are way chewed up. There was even some dead tree carcass dust in there!
I've torn'er down for cleaning, priming and painting, sourced new bearings and blade guide blocks. The gearbox oil will need changing, I'll be turning a new taper pin for the table and the (wooden) left blade guard will need replacing. Some of the covers needed a bit of ... TLC ... to get the kinks out.
Mechanically she's in good shape, I think, the gearbox feels and sounds good, and the double clutch works just fine. However, the bushing on the wood-cutting pulley is quite worn, and so I'd like to make a new one. When in metal-cutting mode, the wood-cutting pulley effectively idles on the shaft on this bushing,
I'm not sure what the material would have been for the original - bronze or oilite, maybe? Anyone here know?

NB: Even if the part is available for mere $$$, I'd prefer to turn it myself, it's not about the time or the money, it's about the learnin'.

Siggi
 

CluelessNewB

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#2
I'm currently working on a slightly earlier one, 1963 vintage if I remember correctly. I believe that bushing is oilite. Mine is actually in good shape although I am replacing most of the ball bearings. I haven't measured the bushing but It would not surprise me if it isn't a standard size. Delta was typically good about using stock parts for things like that. Some of the ball bearings were a bit hard to find but not impossible. My double clutch had been mangled by some gorilla so the roll pins were sheared off. I think it will work fine but was a pain to get apart. I actually think my saw was used for wood most of it's life. I will also be making a tapered table pin, I already have a Delta wood only saw so I have a model for that. I'm in the process of painting and reassembly. The motor got new bearings, capacitor and paint and is reassembled and ready to go. The cast iron base is painted and cured and may actually get assembled tomorrow if nothing else comes up. I have some more painting to do including the lower and upper castings.
 

CluelessNewB

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#3
Well it appears to be a rather odd size 30mm bore, 1 3/8" OD and 1" long
 

Siggi

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I'm currently working on a slightly earlier one, 1963 vintage if I remember correctly.
I couldn't find a serial number or date anywhere on mine - where might I look for this?
Mine has a welded steel base that fully encloses the motor, and a wooden left-hand blade guard.
 

Ulma Doctor

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#5
You won’t go wrong with turning some 660 bronze bushings.
954 Aluminum bronze is nearly indestructible, if you really wanna step outside the box
 

CluelessNewB

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#6
Both of my Delta's have a serial number plate where the arrow is pointing. (Picture found on web.) BTW I checked the dates, my Wood/Metal is 1963 and my Wood Only is 1974. The 1963 is "Rockwell Manufacturing" the 1974 is "Rockwell International".

The 1963 has a wooden rear blade guard. The 1974 had a plastic rear blade guard but when I added the riser block it came with
a longer aluminum rear blade guard.



DeltaBandsaw.png
 
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yendor

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I have an older Rockwell/Delta 14" Metal/Wood Band Saw as well.
but the Large Pulley with the Clutch assembly was lost by a previous owner .
The parts are NLA but I'm wondering if anyone could take some detailed pictures that would make it possible for me to make one?
 

Siggi

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Both of my Delta's have a serial number plate where the arrow is pointing.
Thanks, that helps. There are two drilled holes on the casting where the tag would have been pinned on my saw. I guess it's forever lost...

I have an older Rockwell/Delta 14" Metal/Wood Band Saw as well.
but the Large Pulley with the Clutch assembly was lost by a previous owner .
The parts are NLA but I'm wondering if anyone could take some detailed pictures that would make it possible for me to make one?
I found this restoration report with decent pictures of the mechanism. I can get some measurements of the pulley for you as well if you like. Basically there's a castle nut on the pulley to mate with the one on the shaft. The pulley is then bushed so that it can idle on the shaft when in metal cutting mode.
 
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Siggi

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I had decided just to change the oil, and not to open the gearbox. After reading through that restoration report however, I think I'll never sleep at night if I don't look inside the gearbox. Having gone to the trouble of popping it, redoing the gasket and such, I guess I might as well go ahead and paint the main castings as well.

On a tangent, where do you guys buy blades for cutting metal and what sort of blades do you use?
I figure I'll mostly be cutting aluminum from 1/8" through 1", some mild steel, primarily round stock and occasionally a bit of stainless and tool steel.
 

yendor

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Thanks for the Link - BUT... Now you gave me a 1/2 years worth of work.
The restoration report is awesome but I may have to go and rebuild the whole thing. with my spare time that will be a 1/2 year :)
 

chips&more

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#11
I have an older Rockwell/Delta 14" Metal/Wood Band Saw as well.
but the Large Pulley with the Clutch assembly was lost by a previous owner .
The parts are NLA but I'm wondering if anyone could take some detailed pictures that would make it possible for me to make one?
I have an older wood/metal Delta. Would like to help you. But what clutch? Have not looked in the back for some time. But still don’t recall a clutch? There is a high /low shifter on mine…Dave
 
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f350ca

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#12
The clutch must have been a development on the latter version. I have a Delta Milwaukee from I believe the 40's. It has the shifter but you only run one belt at a time.
IMG_1983.jpg

IMG_1986.jpg


The belt guard isn't original, I made it.
I bought a roll of blade and silver solder mine.

Greg
 

CluelessNewB

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#13
There are two different versions of the 14" Delta Wood/Metal Bandsaw gearbox. The older one had a lever that engaged the gears, the newer style has a push-pull knob. I'm not sure of the exact year the change was made but the documents that I have dated 1958 show the "new" style. The document dated 1946 shows the "old" style.
 

Siggi

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I had decided just to change the oil, and not to open the gearbox. After reading through that restoration report however, I think I'll never sleep at night if I don't look inside the gearbox.
Mkay, I have the gearbox open - that was pretty much unnecessary. The oil in there could have done with a 'freshing in the next decade or two, but other than that there was no need to pop the lid. Now that I popped the lid, I guess I'll go ahead and pull the upper shaft as well, give it a good clean and see whether the bearings need replacing. I'd be very surprised if they do, seeing as they'll be getting an oil slosh from the inside so long as the lower pulley has a belt on it.

Interesting to see that the gears are helical - they sure didn't spare any expense.
 

Siggi

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#15
Goddamn it - on disassembling the gearbox, I find that the main casting is cracked! Looking at the pictures I took before disassembly, I see it was there when I got it home, and I don't think we mishandled it in transit. So likely the casting or the pulley took a hit in previous owner's care

This is on the outside of the bearing surface for the lower shaft just above the upper lip of the gearbox mount:
IMG_20180330_121921.jpg

And here from the inside, sorry about the focus, it's near-impossible to get a good picture of this with my phone:
IMG_20180330_121929.jpg


It doesn't appear it's been leaking appreciably through the crack, and because the gearbox clamps and stabilizes the lower end of the crack, I don't think this is terminal. I figure the forces on the shaft will be straight down onto the gearbox mount, so that should be OK, but goddamn it!

I don't have any way to repair this properly, so I'm tempted to e.g. seal the crack with JB weld or the like on the inside, paint it on the outside and see how it fares.
WDYT?
 

Siggi

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#16
Mkay, the seller tells me he "can't do anything for me", if I wanted to e.g. have the crack braised. I can't say I'm surprised, guess this goes with the territory.

I was worried that perhaps it had cracked due to been mis-assembly. I could see the casting being crushed by tightening the nut on the lower wheel if the spacer behind the large gear wasn't inserted on re-assembly after changing bearings or such. If this spacer were missing, the shaft would pull in the sides of the casting instead of tightening the spacer against the inner bearing race on the wheel side.
Maybe that's what happened, but from initially eyeballing, it looks like the dimensions from the outside of the pulley-side bearing to the outside of the spacer is in the ballpark for where this'd assemble without stress.

I've put down a layer of JB Weld on both outside and inside of the casting, will have to see how she holds up. At minimum the JB weld should seal against oil leaks, and the limit it'll lend a little bit of additional support to the crack.
Worst case I can always try and find someone to braise up the crack later if need be.

So, once the JB weld sets on the inside, it's back to (<expletive>) painting.
 

Siggi

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#17
Well, I think I've discovered why the casting's cracked, and it seems pretty weird.
After I re-inserted the main shaft, I noticed that the large gear wheel was rubbing against the casting. I remember when I disassembled the gears I found it strange that there was a fair bit of axial play in the big gear. I figured I'd noticed this after I'd started pushing the spindle through, which would explain it, but now I'm seeing it with the spindle in place, and the pulley-side bearing seated.
I'm pretty sure the gear should have no axial play. I believe the wheel (141) (parts # from the instruction guide on the Vintage Machinery site) the inner race of the main wheel bearing (143), the spacer (149) and the inner race of the gear wheel's bearing (151) should all tighten up against the retaining ring (153).

So, I tapped out the wheel bearing (it's an 87026) and reinserted the spindle, and sure enough, the goddamn spacer is short. If I were to tighten up the wheel on the spindle, I'd crush the casting before I'd start tightening against the retaining ring. If I crushed things all the way up, I'd have the gear wheel rubbing the casting.
WTH???

It's pretty tight to get the gear wheel and spacer into place if the bearing's there, I found myself wondering how the hell this was assembled to begin with.
So, I'm betting what happened is that some mechanical genius (I could see myself doing this :) ) reassembled things in the wrong order, and couldn't get the gear wheel and spacer in. Then, rather than pulling the bearing out, said genius decided to face off the spacer a little until it fit.
I can't fathom how this would have otherwise happened?

[Edit] spindle ~> shaft (what were you thinking?)
 
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Siggi

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Hmmm, perhaps all that's wrong is that the main wheel bearing was installed inside out. Looks the inner race is offset from the outer race, and is also slightly larger. Looks like installing the bearing the wrong way would offset the shaft about 63 thou, which might we all we're talking here.
TIL from reading bearing spec sheets :D.
 
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Siggi

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#19
Yups, looks like the play I'm seeing is ~65 thou, which puts all the dominos in a row. Gotta get a new main wheel bearing as I thrashed the old one when I tapped it out. I guess this is something to watch out for with these old beauties.
 

Janderso

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#20
I have enjoyed refurbishing old iron for many years. You have run into a concealed problem that gets the ole gray matter going.
You will figure it out. Walk away every once and a while, sleep on it.
Have fun.
 

Janderso

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#21
I have enjoyed refurbishing old iron for many years. You have run into a concealed problem that gets the ole gray matter going.
You will figure it out. Walk away every once and a while, sleep on it.
Have fun.
 

Siggi

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#22
Long story is that it makes no sense to turn the bearing around, so I machined a new spacer. With the added thickness of the new spacer, there was no way to get the big gearwheel into place. So, I'm assembling it with the old spacer, the same way I found it. Will go easy on tightening up the lower wheel though...
 
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