18.1/4" bead roller upgrade question.

[Ken from ontario]

I am in final stages of upgrading my Princess Auto bead roller, I copied most of the steps on Jere Kirkpatrick's video called "Building Gene Winfield's Bead Roller", except I opted for a manually operated hand wheel instead of making it power feed. the hand wheel is actually a 16" steering wheel that I bored to fit the drive rod where the crank handle would go.
I know you all like to see pictures and I'll do that when I get chance but my question to any one who has done this upgrade is, did you work with your bead roller by rolling it manually without a power feed for a while ? or did you decide to add a motor to it from the get- go? if it is electrically powered, what did you use, chain /sprocket? or a direct drive with a motor/speed reducer?
I know I may not get a lot of answers here since most may not be involved in sheet metal fabrication but if you do have any thoughts or comments I would be very interested to hear from you.
Ken.

 

[C-Bag]

Hi Ken.

I’m glad to see another sheet metal guy on here. Jere’s mod for the plate/HF header is my inspiration too. I tried the hand wheel off my HF ring roller because it’s huge and easy to roll. But doing it by hand sux. its not about the mechanical advantage, it just feels like it needs 3 hands. None of the pro beaders like Lazze or any others use it manually because you can’t see what your doing at the same time as cranking if you want to do really precise work. It would be different if you were using one of the old Pexto beaders with like 9” throat. But with a 18” throat your just too far away IMHO and the work needs two hand and close attention to be accurate. I’ve gotten way laid off finishing my beader but I’ve decided to use my HF 2hp handheld pipe threader that I used to power my rock sifter and ring roller on the beader too. It’s plenty strong and outputs 40rpm and quick connects between the different machines as needed. With a HF footswitch should be good to go.

 

[Ken from ontario]

That pipe threader would be ideal for your bead roller, has lots of torque, low rpm, I've seen a few mods on YouTube that use that HF pipe threader.

Right now I'm debating whether I should buy the worm gear speed reducer that is on sale, it has a 60/1 ratio , 1" output shaft. I could use a coupler to connect it to my roller but I still need an electric motor to turn it.

Did you reinforce your bead roller so it would not rack in/out? some use 1.1/2"x 1.1/2" square tubing welded to the back, I didn't. I just fastened a 1/4" piece of steel 1"x 2"x1/4" to connect the top to the potion of the bead roller(above the 18" slot) to the bottom. I only do edge working so don't need 18" throat.

 

[C-Bag]

i bought mine used from a local guy and he’d done the reinforcing already w/ 1 1/4 sq tube along with a nice stand for $125. I looked into gear boxes and like the drive like Jere did but thought why? I never run any of those machines at the same time and it’s just plug in and quick connect the threader. I’ve never used the threader to thread with as I’m sure the dies are sub par. But as a drive unit it does great! I adapt the die holders to connect with so the threader just pops of and is stored when not used. I got the threader out of the return bin at HF i think $120. When I used it for my rock sifter I worked HARD and it quit once. When it burped I turned it off and took it apart. They had not cut the retaining ring groove on the worm gear shaft and it popped the ring off. Recut the groove to seat properly and it’s being going ever since. It’s a beast. I had I don’t know how many yards of rock that had sunk into the sandy soil and I had to sift it all out to reuse the rock but also I had to put in a fence and its close to impossible to dig post holes through gravel.

I want to use the beader it do some anti oil canning beads so I’m expecting to go deep. I’ve learned the hard way if I don’t engineer for max I’ll be sorry.

My hero for beading is Lazze as far as technique but my hero for lo budget get er done is Jere. His mods like the depth gause with its bolt in support and the quick release on the upper roller are genius. That recounting turns to duplicate depth of bead is for the birds and Jere is the only one to come up a logical fix. Quick and simple. Even the super $$$ Mittler Bro’s beader doesn’t have that! Jere also has a great series on how to make washers and spacers to make custom patterns. Then his series on making and tempering your own rollers is the stuff! But that was what got me way laid. I had to backtrack and make a version of his Ball turner attachment for the lathe. I modded his basic design but the idea was genius IMHO.

Jere is one I follow closely. I hate to say it, I have a “cheat” as he talks too slow and some of his ticks get to me. So I speed his vids up to 1.75x sometimes 2.0 and I’m good to go. Love the guy and what he presents but I can see how his delivery would drive some crazy.

 

[Ken from ontario]

I'm actually working on that quick release that Jere designed, will do it exactly like he did except my clamp is pressed steel instead of cast iron body, I don't think the clamp in his video is going to take the abuse that well.
You're right about Lazze and Jere on all counts, they both dedicate a lot of time and energy and come up with some ingenious designs and upgrdes.
Lazze's Bead roller dies costs way too much so I don't even go there but Jere, like he thinks like most of us think, looks don't matter, functionality is what he's after, I just love the guy. I do admit I too fast forward through a lot of his videos, lol but we all agree the day that he's not around any more would be a sad day for many hobbyists and pros.

I only want the bead roller to do beads or flange on copper
mostly couple of inches from the edge but copied Jere's fence design to the "T", needed a lot of fiddling, grinding .shaving to get it right but it definitely works in all different positions. that was another great design that he came up with.
Anyhow, I am also glad at least there are two members here who do sheet metal fabrication , I really thought there were more. I also frequent another site lately that's full of great information on metal shaping, maybe you know about it, it's called "All Metal Shaping.com." if you haven't, check it out.

 

[C-Bag]

+1 on Lazze’s roller dies costing too much. I guess if you are working in a custom hotrod shop it’s no big deal. I’ll be honest I don’t think you even need to heat treat the dies, but I guess I’ll find out. But I’m just mostly experimenting and making projects for myself. I’ve always loved all kinds of metal work/welding/fabrication. Being terminally cheap it makes more sense to me to make or mod cheap tools until I’m sure I want to do something an expensive machine warrants. It’s funny to me how specialized these guys like Lazze are. I’m pretty sure he has some machine shop or something make these things for him as I don’t see a machine shop in his vids. But he’s going to get stuff done way quicker than I ever will because he just doing the projects not building the equipment etc.

 

[C-Bag]

Checked All metalshaping.com and two things. You have to join to look at anything and the sites not secure. Too bad.

 

[Ken from ontario]

Checked All metalshaping.com and two things. You have to join to look at anything and the sites not secure. Too bad.

I remember now, you're right you'd need to register and post a couple of time before you can read certain threads or see picture but believe you me, it's well worth the wait, there are a few pros there that are willing to share their knowledge , TM technologies is one, Jere is as also an active member there but the wealth of information available is unbelievable, you can spend days reading posts and threads.

 

[C-Bag]

Wow, ok, you talked me into it. TinMan is a stone cold wizard and it must be a heck of a site if he and Jere are both there.

 

[682bear]

I built one several years ago, modifying a Woodward Fab manual bead roller. I put a chain drive on it (5:1 reduction, I think) mated to an 18:1 gearbox and powered it with a Harbor Freight drill.



The drill plugs into an outlet mounted on back of the machine... the outlet is switched through an momentary foot pedal. I lock the trigger on the drill, and use the foot pedal to power it while I guide the material with both hands. The drill is also reversible, so I can run it either direction.

-Bear