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1875 Ames Planer

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cjtoombs

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#1
This is the planer I posted in the Ads for Sale forum, which I wound up buying. One of you other guys should have bought this, now I have to spend the time getting it fixed and working. Here's that thread:

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/small-metal-planer-in-ca.69271/#post-583079

Anyway, here it is no the truck after I got it home on Saturday eveining:

IMG_0276.JPG IMG_0277.JPG IMG_0279.JPG

I have two gantries and some come-alongs that I use for loading and unloading thinks like this, but unfortunately, the gantries were not tall enough, so I had to take disassemble it down to the main bed. in order to unload it. The ad stated that there was scoring on the ways, but it was much worse than I thought it would be. It looks like the machine was run completely without lubrication. This machine apparently predated the time when they figured out how to put oil troughs with wipers in the center of the machine to provide lube to the table. It had worn down so badly that on the back of the machine, the table rubbed the bottom of the clearance cut.
IMG_0280.JPG IMG_0281.JPG

The rest of the machine was in pretty good shape, and it was complete, save for the lineshaft pulleys and shafts that would have ran it. It looks like from the holes drilled in the uprights that it had a motor drive on it at one point in time. Here are a few pics of the rest of the parts.
IMG_0283.JPG IMG_0284.JPG IMG_0285.JPG
 

cjtoombs

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#2
I thought a bit about how to tackle the worn out ways. Just from looking at the ridge on the platen slideways, it looks like it has something like .030 wear, which is likely duplicated on the platen ways. I think I will need to make some special scraping standards to get the shape and spacing of the ways in the bed correct. In order to ensure that the rack doesn't bottom out on the bull gear, I will need to add material to the platen. I am thinking about using Rulon 142 on the platen, the 1/16" thick stuff, then scraping it in using the bed as the master for it. This isn't a project that I'm going to tackle right away, I have some other stuff that's higher priority right now, but this planer is a nice size, at 22" x 60", and I got it for little enough that I can afford to put some money into it without going overboard on the budget. So, the rundown on what it needs is: Bed ways scraped in, motor drive fabricated for it and a better lube system, so this doesn't happen again. As a bonus, I think I would like to add a motor driven cross slide elevation to it. I do so get tired of cranking on these old machines. Well, that's all for now.
 

vtcnc

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#3
Subscribed! If I was closer and had the space I would have at least tried to talk my wife into that one!


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C-Bag

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#4
Another that will be keeping watch. You seem way more prepared for this than I. You have a truck, the overhead etc and it looks the shop to deal with it. When he said there was scoring of the ways I was afraid of what was there. Proper lube seems like such basic thing but my shaper was evidence that not everybody is used to using an oil can every time you start up and that you can't over oil. I'll be particularly interested in the repair of the ways as I've never seen the process of using Roulon.
 

cjtoombs

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#5
The only dealing I had with a polymer way material was in Richard Kings scraping class. it is attached with an epoxy and scraped the same as anything else, but it's softness makes scraping it different than cast iron. Since care has to be taken, I expect I will be using the non power hand scraper for the Rulon. I have a Biax scraper, a nice size surface plate and some straightedges, but I will have to fabricate special straightedges for this job.
 

ThunderDog

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#6
...AAAANNNDDD, back down into the rabbit hole you go!! Looks like a fun project. Will be keeping tabs on the scraping. It would be nice to see some alignment measurement/setups pics as you analyze and scrape this, for us newbies who are crazy enough to consider scraping as well.
 

cjtoombs

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#7
...AAAANNNDDD, back down into the rabbit hole you go!! Looks like a fun project. Will be keeping tabs on the scraping. It would be nice to see some alignment measurement/setups pics as you analyze and scrape this, for us newbies who are crazy enough to consider scraping as well.
I think I've figured out how I'm going to do it, but you will have to be patient, as this project isn't first on the list and it's going to take a while to do. I will post how I do it, for good or bad, so hopefully it will help someone else.
 

vtcnc

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#8
I think I've figured out how I'm going to do it, but you will have to be patient, as this project isn't first on the list and it's going to take a while to do. I will post how I do it, for good or bad, so hopefully it will help someone else.
Any updates on the Ames planer?


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cjtoombs

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#9
Still sitting where it was when last I posted. Neck deep in a kitchen remodel right now, then I need to do some auto maintenance and some work on the camper. I don't see doing anything to it for the remainder of this year. Would like to get it out of the middle of my shop for now, but that will have to wait, too.
 

middle.road

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#11
That is going to be a really cool piece. They are so neat to sit and watch, like shapers, pen plotters, ETC.
Did you ever see the New Haven Planer that Keith Rucker did a video on about a year ago? https://goo.gl/RrZJZK
Considering that they are from the 1800's they are, IMO, engineering marvels.
I would guess that any that are picked up will require a wee bit of restoration.
 

Bob Korves

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#12
It would be nice if you could figure a reasonable way to machine the ways to get the roughness out and make them geometrically correct, then add strips of metal that are glued in or held down with flat head screws, and then scraped in to final fit. I suppose the strips would need to be steel or short strips of cast iron, and you would be looking at a LOT of work (though I guess you are no matter which way you go.) Moglice or Rulon would not be period correct, and might stand out visually, but would get it operational again.
 

cjtoombs

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#13
you could use moglice
I've found a source for the Rulon, not for Moglice. Also, I don't think the Moglice would be any easier to use than the Rulon, as I would still have to scrape the bed ways to get a surface that could be used to cast the Moglice to the platen. If I cast the Moglice to the Bed ways, I would have to do it in two steps (the platen is shorter than the bed) which would likely still require scraping to get the two cast sections alligned.
 

cjtoombs

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#14
It would be nice if you could figure a reasonable way to machine the ways to get the roughness out and make them geometrically correct, then add strips of metal that are glued in or held down with flat head screws, and then scraped in to final fit. I suppose the strips would need to be steel or short strips of cast iron, and you would be looking at a LOT of work (though I guess you are no matter which way you go.) Moglice or Rulon would not be period correct, and might stand out visually, but would get it operational again.
I'm more concerned with the operation, but with the Rulon on the bottom of the platen, it won't be terribly visible. Best way to go with metal would be to epoxy cast iron strips on, but making the strips would be a huge pain.
 

cjtoombs

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#15
This is the process that I plan to use to scrape the bed:


1. Since the uprights are off the machine, and I intend to leave them off until I have concluded the scraping of the bed ways, I need to compensate for their weight. I will measure the components, model them in Fusion 360 and derive a weight from the model. This means is preferable, as I will need a model to design the drive, and besides, I don't have a set of scales capable of weighing the parts.
2. Determine the location and amount of weight to hang under the machine bed to simulate the weight of the rest of the machine, which won't be there. I believe this will be necessary for this machine, as the bed is pretty spindly and there is likely to be significant (in the neighborhood of a few thousandths of an inch) sag just due to weight that I want to ensure is incorporated in the scraping.
3. Cut the center groove deeper. I plan to do this with an angle grinder and jig. It doesn't have to be accurate, it just provides clearance, and the wear is so bad it will need to be deepened.
4. Do a preliminary scraping on the ways. This will just be to smooth them out a bit, I don't plan to use a straight edge for this. The angle grinder and a jig may be something to think about for this step, as well.
5. Level the machine from the reference flats where the uprights were bolted on.
6. Fabricate a V block to go in the ways for the level to sit on.
7. Map the ways using a master precision level.
8. Come up with a scraping strategy based on the way map.
9. Fabricate a measuring jig to ensure that the ways remain parallel and in the same plane during the scraping process. This will also act as the reference surface for the scraping.
10. Scrape the ways using the jig and master precision level to get them correct. I am shooting for .0003/foot. We'll see how that goes.
11. Scrape the platen ways for smoothness. They don't need to be too smooth, since I'm using Rulon on them and a rough surface will help with the bond.
12. Epoxy the Rulon to the ways.
13. Reassemble the planer.
14. Use the bed ways as the reference surface to scrape the platen.
15. Scrape the platen, checking the level of the top using a DTI on the crosshead. This doesn't need to be perfect, but I would like to get it within a few thousandths. It will be planned flat once everything else is completed.
16. Fabricate a motor drive.
17. Cut metal.


Have I missed anything? I have a car rotisserie that may be useful for scraping the platen, I would need to fabricate some mounts for it as well.
 

Bob Korves

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#16
Do you have experience with scraping and machine tool reconditioning?
 

middle.road

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#17
This is the process that I plan to use to scrape the bed:
......................(trimmed)
Have I missed anything? I have a car rotisserie that may be useful for scraping the platen, I would need to fabricate some mounts for it as well.
18.) Time

:grin:
 

cjtoombs

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#18
Do you have experience with scraping and machine tool reconditioning?
Nope, but I read the book :) I did take Richard Kings scraping class some years ago and I've done some scraping since then, so the scraping isn't an issue. Alignment is something I don't have any experience with, but I'm pretty sure I can figure it out.
 

Bob Korves

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#19
Nope, but I read the book :) I did take Richard Kings scraping class some years ago and I've done some scraping since then, so the scraping isn't an issue. Alignment is something I don't have any experience with, but I'm pretty sure I can figure it out.
Good! Sometimes people with absolutely no experience or training want to start learning the art of scraping and reconditioning on a rare antique machine, "learning as they go." Often, no good comes from it, and a fine historic restoration candidate eventually gets scrapped, not scraped...
 

Sblack

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#20
I've found a source for the Rulon, not for Moglice. Also, I don't think the Moglice would be any easier to use than the Rulon, as I would still have to scrape the bed ways to get a surface that could be used to cast the Moglice to the platen. If I cast the Moglice to the Bed ways, I would have to do it in two steps (the platen is shorter than the bed) which would likely still require scraping to get the two cast sections alligned.
I think the idea is to rough up the bed and cast the moglice onto the bed. But then you need a full length straight edge to be a pattern for the cast. You would probably have to rent something from a machine rebuilder. I have seen pictures on the moglice site of this being done. Not simple, but neither is any other solution and the advantage is that you don't need to remove material from the casting.
 

Sblack

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#21
https://www.moglice.com/

They have a manual you can download. I am not affiliated and of course I respect your decision to go another way, or you might find something interesting. You never know.
 
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