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1964 Ford 292 With Cruisomatic

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racecar builder

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#1
that's right there's no car with it.:)
it came out of F100.
i've been disassembling the motor and it's pretty interesting.
anybody know about these?
 

racecar builder

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#2
jerry
i want to do something like the picture here with it.
( i know that's a Chevy engine, imagine 292 set up like that )
right now i'm stuck on taking it apart until
i get impact gun & gear puller over here.
crank dampener & flex plate bolts.:)

Have A Nice Day!

454.jpg
 

racecar builder

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#3
jerry
i've been taking it apart.
everything looks pretty good.
the piston tops look wet and oily.
i should check the rings and valve guides?

Have A Nice Day!
 

Tony Wells

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#4
Generally, on an engine that old, you can count on the valve seals to be shot, and likely the guides worn to the point of leaking oil. Same deal with the rings. Chances are good that successful use of this engine will require a rebuild.
 

racecar builder

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#5
tony
now hold on just a minute.
this engine might have had engine work done on it.
everything has come apart easy and
the valve heads look real good.
it may be mostly carbon. the piston tops aren't that oily.
i just trying to remember if that's what usually lets the oil
get into combustion chamber.

Have A Nice Day!
 

Tony Wells

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#6
Well, the two main routes for oil in the cylinder are worn guides or bad seals, and worn oil control rings. Oil rings can be installed incorrectly and pump oil up into the cylinder. A quick evaluation of the overall condition of the rings is the presence or absence of a ridge near the top of the cylinder. If it has had recent work, there should be little or no discernible ridge. If there is no ridge, it does not rule out broken or incorrectly installed oil rings though. if the guides and seals are worn, the stem just beneath the head of the valve will show unusual staining. It should be visible through the intake port of the head. The exhaust valve guide and seal generally do not allow oil in, simply because of the positive pressure in the exhaust side. The intake side however, does have a low pressure relative to atmospheric, and even lower than the crankcase pressure, especially if the PVC valve is not functioning properly, or the rings are worn enough to allow blow-by. Most of the time, a compression check will tell you a bit about the condition of the rings, and with a squirt of oil, can seal the valves well enough to raise the compression pressure long enough to diagnose bad valves.
 

reds

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#7
that's right there's no car with it.:)
it came out of F100.
i've been disassembling the motor and it's pretty interesting.
anybody know about these?
292 was the motor in the 55 t-bird. Peppy motor for that light weight car.

Had the opportunity to drive a 55 t-bird for a day, years ago. What a car.
 

racecar builder

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#8
tony & reds
i'm going to keep taking it apart and
check the crank.
i was told it had 'spun bearing'
well, we'll see!
there is some organization here, sort of.
when you start assembly it's lay in the crank first and
i might have to hustle up a new crank, i hope not.
here's pic of 292 all rebuilt.:)

Have A Nice Day!

Test Stand 292.jpg
 

racecar builder

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#9
H-Mer's
rolled the block from one side to the other
to check block casting numbers.
the oil that spilled out was that 'here we go' burnt black variety.
oh joy!
what is going on with short 1/2" pipe steel tube
OUT of rear? of oil pump INTO block?

Have A Nice Day!
 

flatbelter

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#10
Hey can anyone join this thread??;)



Just picked up a '63 F-100 with the 292 and a stick. Engine runs real good, smooth would be right way to describe it. Doesn't smoke, doesn't skip, idles nice. Don't know how many times it has been torn down, could be none, but hard to tell. Fuel pump has a sediment bowl, nice touch, hard to get filters. Has been stored indoors since 2000. Truck is rough but pretty solid, should be a good project.

I like the PCV valve, it's two feet of rubber hose pointed at the ground. One belt runs the genny and the water pump. Heater has an on/off valve on the engine. No power steering, no power brakes, no AC, AM radio is missing.

It's been a long time since I reworked a ford small block, and this will be my first Y block.

Good luck to us both!
 

racecar builder

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#11
flat belt
i'll take it one thing at a time.
you've got the truck to go with it.
( see my signature i use on y block forums )
i picked up drivetrain as kind of warmup to get
back into mechanics.
i would be stripping 70's Dodge van with 360, torquelflite and probably Dana 60
rearend right now except neighbor is holding for ransom. (asking high price )
i might get it later.
you dodged a bullet getting 3 speed, the cruisomatic weighs a TON!
all cast iron bellhousing, main case & tailhousing, it weighs!

Have A Nice Day!

Ford 292 &
Cruise-O-Matic
from '64 Ford F100
 

8ntsane

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#12
Race Car Builder

Sounds like your in the tear down anyway. I see the pic of the dragster you posted. Is this the intent for this motor? If you are going to be using this engine for this, your going to need to go through the entire engine anyway.

I used to be in the biz for about 30 yrs building drag cars. Over that time I have seen alot of reasons why the oil was getting its way to the top of the pistons. I think Tony has mentioned the common issues. The engines from back at that time, had those umbrella type valve seals, and commonly got hard, and or split with age. They never did a great job of keeping the oil from getting sucked down when the intake valve opened. As you probably allready know, there is many after market seals that do a much better job of controling that problem.

If your tearing it down for inspection anyway, might as well mic up the bores/ pistons, and while your at it, check the rings. Oil rings for proper installation, and that the upper and lower rails are not lined up. The compession rings, same thing. On the complete set, check for excessive end gaps as well. Here are a few other things to check out while you in there looking. The intake manifold is a common place for oil to get sucked down, Make certain it fits properly. Not so common on a stock motor, but if the intake is after market, have a real good look. The imprint on the gaskets will clue you in if the intake sits flat to the heads.

Another thing to check. If the heads have screw in rocker studs that are over a intake runner. Ive seen lots of heads that have been rebuilt, hot tanked nice and clean, and the person assembling it all forgot to put the sealer on the rocker studs on assembly. This can result in a oil drinking/ smoking engine. PCV can cause the oil to be comsumed to, but is usually easy to spot. If the PCV is hooked up below the carb, the inside of the intake gets slimed with oil. If its in one runner, then only that cyl that gets fed by that runner gets oiled down. On the other hand, Ive seen many engines haul down oil through the PCV, just over replacing the valve covers with after market cheapies, that dont have the baffel below the PCV.

If this engine will be used in a drag car, the PCV will normally be deleted in favor of the one way valves that get hooked up to the collecter on your headers, and the other end going to the valve covers. These still need the rocker cover baffels, to prevent the oil being sucked out.

One thing I used to do on the super charged Pro Mod. I had made a plate that bolted down on top of the intake manifold. With all the rocker backed off, I would pressurized the top end to ensure that the intake manifold sealed to the heads, and the intake valves were seated properly. This was done using a leak down tester. After the blower was bolted down, I would plate the top again to verify the seal between the blower and the intake was sealed up proper.

A simple plate, and pressure test will let you know if the intake is sealing to the heads , or not. On the super charged motors, we eventually stopped using gaskets, and switched to O-ring material, and machined grooves to push the material into. Not that you would go to this extent on this motor, but you will need to find where the oil is coming from, if you dont find a ovious fault on inspection.

Paul
 

racecar builder

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#13
paul
aren't the valve stem seals just something extra?
if the valve stems and guides are in good shape
whatever oil gets down there is nothing?
that little bit just gets burned up with air/fuel?
i never use a PVC valve.
i think any horror stories you hear are because
the rings are letting compression get into crankcase.

Have A Nice Day!
 

8ntsane

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#14
paul
aren't the valve stem seals just something extra?
if the valve stems and guides are in good shape
whatever oil gets down there is nothing?
that little bit just gets burned up with air/fuel?
i never use a PVC valve.
i think any horror stories you hear are because
the rings are letting compression get into crankcase.

Have A Nice Day!
The valve seals you would think are just somthing extra,,but valves are not fitted to the guides as tight as one might think. Even with fresh guides they dont stay to tight of a fit for long. With the side loading the rockers put on the valves as they are pushed open, that alone wears the guides. On the intake valves the suction of the piston drawing in a fresh intake charge will draw oil into the chamber past the guide. Many racers dont even bother putting seals on the exhaust valves, on drag engines only.

The importance of good seals on intake valves depends on a few things. If the guides have liners, they need good seals. If they guides have been knurled to tighten the clearance to the valve stem, they need good seals. If the heads have had either of these things done, the oil will run right down into the chamber, especially if the guides have been knurled.

What I mean by good seals is the type the push down over the OD of the guide.
These have a band clamp to hold the secure to the guide. The umbrella type seals just slide down over the valve stem. That type are ok in pure stock motor, but add a hi lift camshaft, and those type get pushed up the valve stem towards the retainer. As the valve starts to open, the seal only sheids the guide when at full lift.

Valve seal installation must be done with those plastic condoms that slip over the valve stem to prevent the seals from being damaged from the grooves machined for the valve locks. Many guys think they can just grease up the end of the valve and push the seals on, bad move. You will have a damaged seal.

Check out the seals from companys like Crane, Comp Cams, you will notice they have a band clamp to keep the seal clamped to the guide, and the teflon seals have a coil spring like deal that clamps the seal to the valve stem. These are seals for race engines, and may not be what your looking for, but will give you a better idea on whats out there for extreme applications.

Even look at what GM uses for seals these days. They havnt used those o-ring type seals for years. The use a seal that pushes down over the guide to keep the majority of oil out of there.

Don,t forget that in todays Hi-Perf engines, most are using a oil pump of hi-pressure, and hi- volume. That will send alot more oil up to the top end. Though many race applications will use restricters to limit the oil sent up to the top end with roller cam/roller rocker combo,s , the oil thats floating around in the valve covers does have direct effect on valve spring life. The oil helps cool the springs.
So a modded oil pump, or a purpose built oil pump will send more oil up to the top end. Thats reason enough to have the best seals you can get your hands on.

Also, the seals that push down over the guides have to be most times the guide od be machined to to except this type of seal. Take a look at Moroso, Mr Gasket, for the tool that cuts the guides down. Simple tool that has a arbour that drops in the guide, and is mounted in a regular hand drill. The last one I bought was about 40.00 bucks, and you can update the heads to the good stuff in less than a hr.

I dont know exactly what your build up is, but I can say this about oil making its way in the combustion chambers. On a hi compression race engine, it will invite detonation, and that will destroy a engine in short order. Best to keep the oil out of there.

Paul
 

racecar builder

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#15
paul
i'm going to get impact sockets from harbor freight.
my deep set from way back i can't use at the moment.
i need to start taking it apart some more and
find out what's going with 'spun bearing' crank.

Have A Nice Day!
 

flatbelter

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#16
Just found out that the old F100 we had is still out in the weeds at my cousin's place. Will be making a stop there next month to see if anything is still salvageable. Probably not much left of it by now.
 

racecar builder

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#17
flatbelter
under the hood engine and tranny might be ok.
driveshaft and rear end.
you could get the welder going and build a hot rod!:)
or at least a tractor.
what do you think about this napa carb cleaner?
going to rebuild mighty Autolite 2100 2 barrel from 292.
have the kohler carb too.
then the big gun Holley 750 CFM Annular Discharge Double Pumper List 4779.

Have A Nice Day!

Mac's Carburetor Cleaner.jpg
 

flatbelter

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#18
Hey Racecar Builder,

Yea I'm hoping to steal some engine/drive line parts, maybe some spare glass too.

I haven't used that type of carb cleaner before, I could have used some on my 2100 carb last month. How expensive is it. I still have an acceleration stumble on the 292, otherwise it runs great.
 

racecar builder

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#19
flatbelter
what kind of ford do you have?
you go to NAPA online and create account.
add your vehicle and then you can search
for parts AND supplies.
without the account the site is almost unusable.
it showed $20 at my NAPA.
it's a pickup at store only item.

Have A Nice Day!
 
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