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3D Taster Opinions

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TomS

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#1
I have a Starrett edge finder for finding my X and Y zero but I have to adjust the spindle speed to something less than 800 rpm. Kind of a pain on my CNC mill to change pulley speeds. And then I have to deal with setting the Z zero. That takes another tool and another step in the setup sequence. I also have a XYZ tool setter that is automated through Mach3 (see picture below). It works well for setting up rough stock but is lacking accuracy when locating semi-finished parts for second operation machining.

I've been thinking about purchasing a 3D taster for locating parts edges and top surfaces. I've never used one but have viewed several videos showing them in action. On the surface they appear to be accurate and easy to use. The down side is they are expensive. I've looked at Tschorn, Haff and Schneider, SPI (looks like a Tschorn copy) and Haimer. Haimer seems to be the most popular and Tschorn the least expensive. Anyone have hands on experience and an opinion as to their usefulness? How accurate are they in use? Is any brand better than the other in regards to accuracy, repeatability, durability, etc?

IMG_0045.jpg
 

mksj

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#2
I use the Haimer, it is accurate to ~0.0004" and fairly durable (broke the tip once). Many of the other dial type edge finders also have a break away tip, but typically it needs to be sent to the factory for replacement which is big $$ and down time. The Haimer is usable replaceable and tips are around $40. I also have and electronic edge finder integrated into my DRO, but the Haimer is 2-3X more accurate, it also allows you to 0 an edge where my electronic edge finder only gives you a center point and a distance, not an edge 0 point. THe dial is easy to read and you have a +/- range around 0 which is more than other edge finders (i.e. less likely to break the tip). The Haimer requires high accuracy collets to get the most out of it, I typically get very good repeatability and accuracy, probably need to go to an electronic strain gauge type of edge finder to get any better. I ended up with the 12MM shaft metric version as the 3/4" version is too large for my chucks. You can purchase high accuracy 12 mm r-8 collets and also ER collets, which is a must for getting the accuracy. You will need a 0.0001" test indicator to setup the tip alignment, trust me that anything less does not cut it. I definitely recommend the Haimer, been using it for several years. I always use two hands and am very careful with it, drop anyone of these edge finders and they are probably toast.

https://www.haimer-usa.com/products...-new-generation/3d-sensor-new-generation.html

Testing the accuracy of a 1" gauge block, which was spot on and this was with a chuck as opposed to a collet. That being said the Jacobs chuck measred within 0.0002" TIR OMG.

Haimer 3D Sensor - New Generation 80.360.00.NG.jpg
 

ScrapMetal

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#3
FWIW - I have a digital Haimer and rely on it extensively. I'm using it in combination with a DRO on the mill for positioning, edge finding, centering, etc. It's probably the most used tool that I have.

-Ron
 

Ianagos

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#4
I just bought a tschorn saveplys so far it seems decent haven’t really used it much. I went with tschorn because it was half the price but also because they have a service center that will actually help you while Haimer does not care one but that you bought a product from them. The saveplus cost $210 and the spare tip was $40.
 

TomS

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#5
Thanks for your replies. I was hoping that the feedback would be positive. There is a industrial supply house in town. I'll drop by tomorrow and see what they can do on price and delivery. And of course there is always Amazon and eBay.
 

mksj

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#6
I purchased my Haimer from Tormach, I had some adjustment questions and they were very responsive., Service is often a function of who you purchase from, so if buying new I would recommend a more mainstream vendor at this price level. I also have the passive probe which is the same as the Tormach below which uses a mechanical electric switch to determine the edge. I prefer the Haimer. Unfamiliar with the Tschorn, but looks like a good alternative and has a US service center, see discussion of both below.
https://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=33029&portrelay=1
https://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=32310
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/haimer-vs-tschorn-3d-tasters-338934/
 

Ianagos

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I purchased my Haimer from Tormach, I had some adjustment questions and they were very responsive., Service is often a function of who you purchase from, so if buying new I would recommend a more mainstream vendor at this price level. I also have the passive probe which is the same as the Tormach below which uses a mechanical electric switch to determine the edge. I prefer the Haimer. Unfamiliar with the Tschorn, but looks like a good alternative and has a US service center, see discussion of both below.
https://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=33029&portrelay=1
https://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=32310
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/haimer-vs-tschorn-3d-tasters-338934/

Service is not a factor of you you buy from. Nobody in the us repairs hiamers.



To the op I got my tschorn off traverstool ebay store.


 

TomS

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#8
Service is not a factor of you you buy from. Nobody in the us repairs hiamers.



To the op I got my tschorn off traverstool ebay store.


Thanks for the purchase info. And you are correct on the price; about $220 with shipping.
 

TomS

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#9
Ordered the Tschorn from the Travers Tool eBay store. It will be here early next week.
 

Ianagos

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#10
Ordered the Tschorn from the Travers Tool eBay store. It will be here early next week.
I’ll be setting mine up this weekend on my Fadal. Only thing I dislike is I cannot leave it in my toolchanger because it’s not waterproof. But that’s ok the electronic edge finders I used to use were not waterproof either I just didn’t care about those.

I hope this thing repeats like it should.
 

TomS

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I’ll be setting mine up this weekend on my Fadal. Only thing I dislike is I cannot leave it in my toolchanger because it’s not waterproof. But that’s ok the electronic edge finders I used to use were not waterproof either I just didn’t care about those.

I hope this thing repeats like it should.
I've read quite a bit on the web about the Haimer and Tschorn. Definitely the Haimer is the most popular of the two but both are highly rated by end users. What it came down to for me was cost; $220 vs. $430. I'm a hobbyist so price is important as long as the quality is similar. I don't have a tool changer on my mill so the IP67 rating wasn't a factor in my decision process. I've got a second operation job waiting so I'm anxious to try it out.
 

astjp2

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#12
We just threw out about 15 haimers because the operators at work seem to crash them a lot...too bad there is not anyone locally to fix them....
 

Ianagos

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#13
We just threw out about 15 haimers because the operators at work seem to crash them a lot...too bad there is not anyone locally to fix them....
I wish I could got a couple of those.

Anyways I got my tschorn all dialed in and some far it’s looking decent.it doesn’t seem to have the smoothest action and almost seems like it gets hung up. But it not that bad and from my quick testing it’s quite repeatable. I haven’t had any chance to play with it more as I’ve had a job cutting for the past 2 days straight and I don’t want to get in the way of production to test this thing any further.
 

astjp2

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#14
I have had the Haimers stick, I just go to the crib and get a new one when I am checking a machine. The old one hits the scrap bin because no one fixes them and they are not that expensive for a Big CNC shop...you would not believe what they threw out in carbide milling bits, reamers and cutters, just because the work statement changed and they may not be used for a while and it costs too much money to keep them in inventory:frown:
 

Ianagos

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I have had the Haimers stick, I just go to the crib and get a new one when I am checking a machine. The old one hits the scrap bin because no one fixes them and they are not that expensive for a Big CNC shop...you would not believe what they threw out in carbide milling bits, reamers and cutters, just because the work statement changed and they may not be used for a while and it costs too much money to keep them in inventory:frown:


Crazy well I’d like one of those broken haimers if you get a chance. Sad they throw that stuff out I pay good money for it.
 

Cadillac

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#16
Has anyone tried to get service on a haimer. Their company is pretty close to me in villa park IL. I’ve also been on the hunt for one.
 

TomS

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#17
Has anyone tried to get service on a haimer. Their company is pretty close to me in villa park IL. I’ve also been on the hunt for one.
I looked on the Long Island Indicator site and their only reference to Haimer is that they are a specialty device and repair parts are not available so they must be sent to Germany for repair. Same comment for Haff and Schneider.
 

Ianagos

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Has anyone tried to get service on a haimer. Their company is pretty close to me in villa park IL. I’ve also been on the hunt for one.
Haimer doesn’t care about the little guys at all. All of the 3D sensors have to be dentro Germany.
 

mksj

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#19
I did check with Haimer as to repair process and it is a long process and potentially costly. Still, I am very happy with its performance and accuracy, I did break the tip once, so I am more careful with it. Drop it on the floor or crash it hard, that may be another story. The Tschorn are comparably priced, the SavePlus version is significantly less expensive, they are also available in 1/2" shafts vs. the Haimer which is either 12mm or 3/4".

Haimer repair process

Receive an RGA from us, and send the sensor to HAIMER USA, ATTN: RGA#, 134 E. Hill Street, Villa Park, IL 60181. We would need a $0.00 PO in order to track the unit overseas, and most people just put it in the box with the sensor. We cannot send anything to Germany without a PO.


2. Once we receive it, we will inspect the unit in house first. If it’s something simple, we will quote cost accordingly and repair in house. Please note that this is generally only in the case of recalibration; if the unit has been crashed, it cannot be repaired in the US.

3. If the unit is going to Germany, we will send it on our next return shipment (every other week).

4. After Germany receives it, they will evaluate it, and send us a quote on the repair costs (usually takes about 1-2 weeks for us to receive the quote).

5. Once we receive the quote, we will quote you that cost. If you’d like to repair it for that price, you’d approve the quote, and that cost would be added to that original PO. Germany will then repair the item in about 2-3 weeks, and ship it back to the US.

6.
Once Haimer USA receives the item, we’ll call you for the credit card information, and will charge the cost of the repair, shipping from USA to you (if not shipping on a collect number), and a 5% transaction CC fee. After payment has cleared, we’ll ship the item back to you, and the PO would be closed.
 

TomS

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#20
The Tschorn is being returned. I was suspicious when I opened the box and noticed dirty fingerprints on the inside. Apparently the box was opened and the taster removed from the box. By whom I have no idea. Could have been a Travers warehouse person or a previous customer, or ???.

Anyway, wanting to see how well it worked I went ahead and set it up. Dialed in the probe tip to within .0002" TIR. I could have fiddled with it more to get it closer but I wanted to try it out. Using a 123 block in my mill vise I touched off on the left side of the block and brought it to "0" on the taster. Raised it up, moved to the right side and jogged down to the same Z height. Jogged over until the taster read "0". This where it gets interesting. I jogged off zero then jogged back to zero. Checked my X axis DRO and it was off .0015" from my initial reading. Hmmm. Moved back to the left side and zero'd the taster. The DRO was off nearly .002". I wiggled the probe in the Y+/Y- direction and the taster needle moved about .0015". Repeated this on the right side and the same thing. In order to get repeatable readings I had to wiggle the probe. Ran the test a couple more times and was able to get consistent readings (within .0005") by wiggling the probe. This is not why I bought this. I can get as close and I can do it much faster using my edge finder.

My observation is the mechanism is not as smooth acting as it should be. Not sure if this a trait of the Tschorn or I got a bad one. In any case it's going back. Anyone experience this with a Haimer?
 

Ianagos

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#21
The Tschorn is being returned. I was suspicious when I opened the box and noticed dirty fingerprints on the inside. Apparently the box was opened and the taster removed from the box. By whom I have no idea. Could have been a Travers warehouse person or a previous customer, or ???.

Anyway, wanting to see how well it worked I went ahead and set it up. Dialed in the probe tip to within .0002" TIR. I could have fiddled with it more to get it closer but I wanted to try it out. Using a 123 block in my mill vise I touched off on the left side of the block and brought it to "0" on the taster. Raised it up, moved to the right side and jogged down to the same Z height. Jogged over until the taster read "0". This where it gets interesting. I jogged off zero then jogged back to zero. Checked my X axis DRO and it was off .0015" from my initial reading. Hmmm. Moved back to the left side and zero'd the taster. The DRO was off nearly .002". I wiggled the probe in the Y+/Y- direction and the taster needle moved about .0015". Repeated this on the right side and the same thing. In order to get repeatable readings I had to wiggle the probe. Ran the test a couple more times and was able to get consistent readings (within .0005") by wiggling the probe. This is not why I bought this. I can get as close and I can do it much faster using my edge finder.

My observation is the mechanism is not as smooth acting as it should be. Not sure if this a trait of the Tschorn or I got a bad one. In any case it's going back. Anyone experience this with a Haimer?

Sorry you got a bad one. Mine ended up being very nice I’m within .0005” every time and it seems smoother then when I first got it.
 

mksj

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#22
I did a similar test with my Haimer when I got it, using a 123 block standing on end I measured 1.0000" on my DRO (see previous picture). When setup correctly the accuracy is ~0.0004" in dimensional measurements and the edge repeatability is ~0.0002" in my experience. The Haimer mechanism is smooth and very consistent, it measure more accurately then a electronic digital edge finder that plugs into my DRO (on edge detection it is out about 0.0006" in either direction). With the Tschorn they makes different quality edge finders, the SavePlus may not be as refined as their higher end models which are the same price as the Haimer. Since there is a local service center, it may be worthwhile to give them a call to discuss your concerns and what the difference is with their different models. One thing that I have not found specific to the Tschorn is clear documentation as to the accuracy and repeatability of each model (I did see this in a video that showed the calibration certificate).
 

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#23
Forgot to mention that is true tschorn will service their indicator here and most likely for free. But it’s easier and quicker to just send it back to travers.

Also I’m betting yours was crashed and returned or something that’s why is was dirty. Mine came clean.
 

TomS

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I'm not going to try and save this one. It's going back. I'm looking at the Haimer again. I found a local industrial supply house that is a Haimer authorized dealer. For the model I'm looking at their price is within $20 of the least expensive one listed on eBay.
 

Ianagos

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#25
Well today my mill operator broke the tschorn. It crashed in the z and completely broke without damaging the tip. Went to look at repair costs and it is $231 so more than I paid for the thing. All in all I’m disappointed but if I had bought a Haimer I’d be out $400 with no repair. These things are just delicate in the z axis. Maybe tschorn will cover it under warranty I need to call them on Monday.
 

Ianagos

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#26
Turns out I was dumb it also explains the sticking previously. There is a plastic spacer you must remove before using the indicator. Once I removed that it started working fine again.
 

Cadillac

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#27
Happens to the best of us. Remember watching a utube video of a guy using a coaxial indicator. The whole time he had the plastic spacer in which would cause it not to read. He kept on with what he was doing not to mention anything of it and if remember correctly kept on with the machining. I’ve been there and noticed it immediately. Just remember to remove and replace most importantly.
 

Ianagos

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Happens to the best of us. Remember watching a utube video of a guy using a coaxial indicator. The whole time he had the plastic spacer in which would cause it not to read. He kept on with what he was doing not to mention anything of it and if remember correctly kept on with the machining. I’ve been there and noticed it immediately. Just remember to remove and replace most importantly.
Strange though because it was working great with that spacer in? Until it got crashed at least.
 

Cadillac

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#29
The spacer isn’t exact. On my coaxial the spacer probably has .030 play. I think its more for maxing the gauge out precaution.
And thanks now I have to get one ;).
 

Ianagos

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#30
They are great especially for cnc work. I have a renishaw probe but use this because no need for the renishaw. I have 2 now so don’t feel so bad
 
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