' 57 Noisy Clausing Colchester 13 Gear Noise :(

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dansawyer

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I purchased a 1957 Clausing Colchester 13x36 gearhead lathe. My main concern was spindle runout and alignment. I thought that hardened ways would protect the ways.I did not pay enough attention to the head drive gears; bad on me for not checking everything out. The long and the short is there is considerable gear noise.
First the lathe has a 2 speed motor. On high the drive train is noisy throughout, much worse on high speed. The noise is sufficiently bad I would not operate the lathe in this mode. Second on low speed it is noisy but not past the point where I would operate it.
I have changed the oil and replace it with ISO 43 oil I removed the cover an inspected the noise source. The drive has three shafts, the drive shaft, the idler shaft, and the spindle shaft. There are two gear pairs from the idler shaft to the spindle shaft, controlled by a gear selector lever on the front of the housing. Both of these positions cause the majority of the noise. (If I place that selector in neutral and run the two drive shaft selectors through the four positions the machine is quite quiet. The noise is not coming from the driven shaft to idler shaft gears.)
There are posts on noise from these machines. Is there a reason it would make more noise across all speed when the motor is in high? This leads me to speculate the noise is somehow 'referred'; this is a leap but I do not want to miss anything.
If it is the gears does anyone happen to know of anyone parting out a machine that might have better gears?
 
Is there visible wear on any of the gears? My EWAG is it is more likely to be bearing, bushing, or worn shaft issues than the gears themselves. I would check the fit of all the movable gears on their respective shafts for any tilting off the shaft center line. Some close up pics would help. Another option would be to drain off about half of your oil, and replace with some Lucas oil additive, and see if that quiets things down some. Mike
 
Gear wear: There are original horozonal machining marks on the end of all the gears. That said there are small tips on one of the corners, always on the same side of the gear. On some gears it in on the tailstock side and others on the back side. The tips are all similar and are about 10 to 15 thou.
The majority of the noise is coming from the idler shaft drive gears as they drive the main spindle gears. How can the bushings be tested?
How can gear mesh and alignment be tested?
When I changed the oil there was measurable black soot, however the total was not significnat. There is a lot of free play, backlash in the gear train. It that design, wear, or alignmnet?
 
Here is what a quick search brought up. https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28765/how-to-inspect-a-gearbox- I've rebuilt quite a few transmissions, and differentials over the years. Pretty much the same procedure. Here is a video of a head stock disassembly which you might find helpful. Clausing may well be able to give you wear limit specs, and test procedures for your specific machine. Mike
 
FOMOGO said:
Here is what a quick search brought up. https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28765/how-to-inspect-a-gearbox- I've rebuilt quite a few transmissions, and differentials over the years. Pretty much the same procedure. Here is a video of a head stock disassembly which you might find helpful. Clausing may well be able to give you wear limit specs, and test procedures for your specific machine. Mike
Click to expand...
Thank you, that is informative. I will start by taking micro photographs of the teeth.

A primary difference, and dissapointment, between the Colchester gearbox and a transmission is these teeth are straight cut and speeds are selected by sliding gears into position. In a manual transmission of the same era the teeth are a constant contact design and the speeds are selected by engaging shafts with servos and collars. Straight cut gears are inherantly noisy, I am not sure if they are more subject to wear?
 
It would be great if you could find someone with a like model to compare. Gear heads with spur gears do make noise.
Helical and herringbone cut gears are quieter.
You may want to check the spindle runout at the mt taper. When warm it should be about half a thou.
If it's excessive, you need bearings IMHO
 
Inspecting large gears for wear is a pretty straightforward visual inspection. Straight cut gears are inherently noisy regardless.

I'd look at bearings first, though. Unless it's been heroically abused with no oil, it's far more likely it needs bearing attention than replacement gears. Worn bearings can make gear trains far noisier if they don't hold them in perfect mesh too.
 
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