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618 Craftsman 101.21400 New Owner Needing an Assist

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Hoppes 9

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#1
After almost a year of searching, I thankfully purchased a nice 618. The long search and scarcity in my area is making me use caution. As a result I have my 1st of many questions:

what is the best method for removing the collar (M6-32) from the spindle? If the answer is a spanner wrench, can someone recommend the proper size?
 

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Rooster

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#2
Greetings, i just use Channellock pliers with some tape on the jaws to prevent marring the collar. You picked a great lathe for your self.
 

Hoppes 9

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Thank you Rooster- tape is a great idea. We’ve been enjoying tinkering with the lathe. I say “we” as I have 2 young sons under the age of 5. They like cleaning the parts with old tooth brushes
 

francist

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#4
When you do get it off, and before you put it back together again, consider doing something like this. Two small holes for an adjustable pin spanner makes for much less drama down the road. Also, if you need to make a new collar at any time, it's a standard thread pitch so you can turn down a large nut and not have to worry about cutting the internal threads. I've made two this way so far and they work well.

-frank
image.jpeg
 

Hoppes 9

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Excellent idea Frank- I will indeed do this. I’ve already had about $80 worth of drama while disassembling the motor countershaft...
 

francist

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#6
Yeah I was going to add, the holes need not be any deeper than about 1/16" or so. Just enough to give some purchase to the spanner without weakening the ring too much. Good luck!

-frank
 

wa5cab

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#7
Putting two holes in the side of the collar to allow the use of a face spanner is one way to do it. However, drilling the holes in the collar when is is still tight on the spindle can be an iffy proposition. Another way to do it, that also yields a tool that can also be used to tighten the threaded collar to properly preload the spindle bearings, is to modify a proper diameter pin spanner by replacing the pin with a bolt or shoulder bolt that screws into either of the existing set screw holes. Just make the threaded part short enough so that you aren't quite tightening the bolt down against the lead pellet in the bottom of the hole.
 

Hoppes 9

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Well the tape method worked, but of course it slipped as I was wrenching. End result is a slightly buggered collar, which is disappointing. Step 2: the adjacent gear. And guess what- it appears stuck. Kroil bath liberally applied.
 

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Rooster

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#9
Greetings Hoppes 9, the gear is keyed to the shaft, you might want to get a gear puller. If you don't have a manual you can download one from Vintage Machinery. There is also a download for the spindle removal at the Yahoo 618 owners group.
 

westsailpat

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#10
Hi Hoppes 9 , I have a 6" (not to be confused with a 618) but it has the same collar . When I got my machine all the gears were stuck , but not that collar because the PO had put a piece of Aluminum under the set screw . Welcome to the forum .
Mark
 

Hoppes 9

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thanks for the help. Time for a puller set and some MAPP gas.
 

wa5cab

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#12
As you remove the collar, take care not to lose the lead or brass pellet that is in the bottom of the tapped holes. If you do lose them and put the screws back in without them, you will definitely not like the results if you ever again need to remove the collar. The pellets prevent the screws from damaging the threads when you tighten them.

On the subject of manuals and parts drawings, you will find almost every manual that anyone has ever scanned in our Downloads. Most of them have had a lot of cleaning up done before they were uploaded. And numerous corrections have been made to some of them. The best parts manual for the 618 is the 1950 edition. It has had the most improvements and corrections done, plus being the best quality scan to start with.

Access to Downloads does require that you be a donor, as the monthly cost of the storage space is a significant part of what the site costs each month to keep it live.
 

Hoppes 9

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#13
Puller gear made things very easy and enjoyable- thanks folks
 

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markba633csi

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#14
A trick I've used to remove collars like that is to back out the setscrew slightly (in your case someone substituted a plain screw) and use an automotive-type hose clamp tightened on the collar such that the inner joint of the clamp "catches" the edge of the setscrew. Then use the channelock pliers (or vise-grips) to loosen the collar and you won't have any marring. Replace setscrew with new one if necessary. You can also use a "sacrificial" setscrew ahead of time if the original must be preserved.
mark
 
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Round in circles

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#15
Can someone tell me what size thread the set screws are please in standard American format & also the size of the adjusting nut .
IE 10-32 or whatever it is, as the for the grub screws threads are impossible to identify, for the hole is cone shaped from misuse/ damage ( not mine I may add).

When I adjusted the taper roller bearing last week during the annual servicing of the lathe I realised one of the grub screws are missing , the one present was direct onto the thread . The grub screw itself is a very badly worn slotted head it took several light grinds on the grind stone to make a sharp cutting edge on the screw driver to extract it .

I think I'll try and get the new nut and turn it down as suggested , make a simple ring spanner on the lathe , weld a handle to it out of 1/2 " thick mild steel plate and tap it for putting in a small high tensile steel bolt as has been suggested & make some lead or Black Delrin seating plugs to fit the holes




On second thoughts ….. would it be possible to only turn off enough of the nut flats off to give clearance on the gear teeth & leave the rest of the hex nut in place so you can put a big bi hex spanner on it instead , drilling & tapping out the two locking grub screw holes as well ?
 
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francist

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#16
I believe that grub screw is #8 - 32 X 3/16" headless slotted. At least that is what the drawing shows, and it sounds about right as well.
The thread on the outboard end of the spindle is 3/4" - 16 which is a standard UNF thread.
As far as turning down only enough to clear the gear teeth, I suspect it would probably work. It may interfere with the hole in the cover door, but if it did it wouldn't be by much and might be able to made to work.

-frank
 

Round in circles

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#17
Many thanks Frank .
As my lathe is an American export specialist military use model, badged as an Atlas, " Made in Great Britain " with a few British made parts added once it arrived in the UK, sent to the UK as part of the marshal plan / lease lend programme in mid 1940's things are occasionally slightly different here & there on the machine. Everything is UNF or UN thankfully .
I'll need check the measurements & if they kind of agree I'll order them later on as it's now 00: 42 hrs here in the UK & I need my beauty sleep.
A bigger hole would solve the too fat of a nut problem, if it does not stick out past the Bakelite door cover outer face or catch the thread chart plate .

Many Thanks

TTFN Dave
 

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#18
Greetings Dave, that's the first time i have heard of a Bakelite guard.
 

wa5cab

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#19
Yes. Originally, most of us had only seen or heard of cast iron covers. Then at least two machines turned up with cast aluminum covers. And now Bakelite.
 

Round in circles

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#20
Frank , can you physically measure the spindle nut please. My spindle is hollow with a 3/4 " hole through it & , it looks like it's 1 & 1/4 inch across the threads not 3/4.

The small grubs fit OK thanks

Dave
 

francist

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#21
Sure can Dave. I physically measured it the first time as well but here it is in photograph so there's no confusion. This one is on my 618, and the one on my Craftsman 101.214 is the same size, and both just barely clear 1/2" through the spindle bore. The caliper is reading 0.742"
image.jpeg
It sounds like your spindle is closer to what I have on the Atlas mill. I've made a collar for that one too, and I think the thread was 7/8" - 14. That one I cannot measure for you though, it's behind the gear plate for the Change-O-Matic and I'm not up to pulling it apart.

Hope that helps more than hinders.

-frank
 

Round in circles

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#22
Thanks Frank
It's deffo 1.25 accross the threads.
So it now looks like I will have to make my own retaining ring .I've spent seven or more hours trawling the internet for any UK or European site that might have what I want ready made to no avail.
 
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Hoppes 9

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#23
Round in Circles- if you are referring to pn L2-682 collar Clausing has them in stock for $4.20..
 

Round in circles

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#24
Thanks Hoppes
 

wa5cab

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I don't have a criss-cross chart for Part Number to application and don't know what L2-682 fits. But I thought that David was talking about the threaded collar on the left end of the spindle. Which is p/n 9-32 on all of the Atlas lathes except for the 6", which is M6-32.
 
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