833TV Received

davidpbest

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Here's another.
Definitely inspiring. I have an old rotary table that I will clean up and make ready for the job as soon as I get the other initial install work on the PM-833T. Expecting delivery on Tuesday.

David, what CAD software do you use for your drawings?

Ariel
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davidpbest

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7milesup

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You use Visio as your CAD software? Interesting.

One of the excellent options for CAD is Fusion 360. An excellent program with awesome support. The Fusion 360 team is very responsive to requests for improvements, etc. It is free for educational/ personal use.

If you are a Member of the EAA, you can download Solidworks for free. That is what I have been using lately.

If one is thinking about heading towards CNC for any of your machines down the road, I would recommend Fusion.
 

parshal

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David, I'd seen the pics for your 935 install but not the PM25. Before I buy the front plate I'm going to do more investigation.

I wish there was an any place to contain the stop. As you can see in the pics, the left side has the electrical box. The thin, horizontal casting in the front is in the way if I use the BP type stop nut.
 

davidpbest

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You use Visio as your CAD software? Interesting.

One of the excellent options for CAD is Fusion 360. An excellent program with awesome support. The Fusion 360 team is very responsive to requests for improvements, etc. It is free for educational/ personal use.

If you are a Member of the EAA, you can download Solidworks for free. That is what I have been using lately.

If one is thinking about heading towards CNC for any of your machines down the road, I would recommend Fusion.
I use Fusion 360 all the time for 3D modeling work, and I advise their development team on UI related enhancements monthly (I’m in Portland OR where their HQ for F360 is located). But it is a terrible substitute for 2D CAD because it’s drawing output capability is very limited. It is getting better, but may never get to a level that’s useful for many things I do. Try doing architectural drawings for a house remodel with it - which is what I do day in and day out. Visio Professional (not the basic version, but the Pro) is hands down the most efficient and productive 2D CAD package available, and I’ve tried them all. For the CNC stuff I send out, no question F360 is great. But not everything lends itself to 3D modeling as a starting point.
 

7milesup

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True about the 2D modeling. Sometimes my thinking goes directly to 3D.
Will visio (non pro version) do 2D drawings? I was using Draftsight but they have now gone to a pay to play model.
As far as architectural drawings go, both Fusion and Solidworks are very poor at doing that.
 

davidpbest

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Visio basic is for org charts, office layouts, stuff like that. Think of it as PowerPoint with some drafting template objects. I was the VC backer of Visio when it started in 1993, but it was gobbled up by Microsoft and integrated into Office in the late 1990’s. The Pro version is fully featured for architectural, engineering, HVAC, piping and pneumatic design, etc. The Pro version of Visio is available for purchase (about $500) or through Microsoft’s cloud-based service for a monthly fee. In many respects it is a template-driven version of the original MacCAD or Claris CAD system, the long time high water mark for UI design and productivity. Within Microsoft, Visio is a backwater product and as such I don’t normally recommend it to new users. I have 20 years of legacy drawings corked up in Visio, so I’m hostage to it and still run the 2002 version under Windows 10 under Parallels on the Mac. Visio does not have parametric geometry capabilities like F360, but is object based with layers and most of the flexibility of Autocad but with a much better user interface. If I had to choose a package today for 2D drafting I would consider Ashlar’s Graphite (which is parametric) or Rhino 2D. The learning curve on all these CAD packages is steep if you want to be productive, and once you have a library of drawings, you are held hostage, so choose wisely.
 

parshal

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I've been using Visio for network diagrams since the late 90's. I've done a couple drawings for machinable items but that's been mostly back of the napkin at this point.
 
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7milesup

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Thanks for the insight Dave!
 

ahazi

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If you are a Member of the EAA, you can download Solidworks for free. That is what I have been using lately.
What do you use the Solidworks for? 2D/3D? I am also an EAA member and can get it but it seems to have a very steep learning curve. In my non hobby life I use an experienced mechanical engineer that is very good with Solidworks and he designs 3D printed and injection molded cases/housing for us. It looks like a lifetime of learning to be as proficient in Solidworks so I am looking for something easier.

Ariel
 

ahazi

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Visio basic is for org charts, office layouts, stuff like that. Think of it as PowerPoint with some drafting template objects. I was the VC backer of Visio when it started in 1993, but it was gobbled up by Microsoft and integrated into Office in the late 1990’s. The Pro version is fully featured for architectural, engineering, HVAC, piping and pneumatic design, etc. The Pro version of Visio is available for purchase (about $500) or through Microsoft’s cloud-based service for a monthly fee. In many respects it is a template-driven version of the original MacCAD or Claris CAD system, the long time high water mark for UI design and productivity. Within Microsoft, Visio is a backwater product and as such I don’t normally recommend it to new users. I have 20 years of legacy drawings corked up in Visio, so I’m hostage to it and still run the 2002 version under Windows 10 under Parallels on the Mac. Visio does not have parametric geometry capabilities like F360, but is object based with layers and most of the flexibility of Autocad but with a much better user interface. If I had to choose a package today for 2D drafting I would consider Ashlar’s Graphite (which is parametric) or Rhino 2D. The learning curve on all these CAD packages is steep if you want to be productive, and once you have a library of drawings, you are held hostage, so choose wisely.
David you are as thorough with CAD as you are with everything else. Nice!

I gave up on Microsoft in 2010 and moved to Linux and my (computer) life became infinitely better except for the mechanical CAD area. Not that much selection. For awhile I used SketchUp through VirtualBox but when Google sold it the party was over. I am using QCAD now which is a very good 2D drawing package (free and multi platform, DXF file format) but I am always looking for something easier and more intuitive without a great learning curve...

Now I am on a mission to make proper fabrication drawings for the stand that I am building for the PM-833T. Inside the stand I am fitting a nice 6-Drawer, Deep Tool Chest Cabinet from Husky that will house the tooling and will also serve as a ballast for the mill.

Expecting my PM-833T delivery tomorrow.

Ariel
 

davidpbest

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Send me a sketch. I’ll draw it up in Visio and clock the time.
 

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This thread has taken an interesting turn re drawings and drafting programs.
I’ve got Fusion 360 but haven’t spent enough time on it primarily because I didn’t have a need.

At the risk of utterly high jacking the thread, why would a person chose 3D over 2D?


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7milesup

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What do you use the Solidworks for? 2D/3D? I am also an EAA member and can get it but it seems to have a very steep learning curve. In my non hobby life I use an experienced mechanical engineer that is very good with Solidworks and he designs 3D printed and injection molded cases/housing for us. It looks like a lifetime of learning to be as proficient in Solidworks so I am looking for something easier.

Ariel
Hello Ariel:
The reasons for my use of Solidworks are slightly complicated but here it goes....
I also do 3D printing and needed a program to draw up designs and send them to my slicer for printing. I am into scale (Large) RC helicopters so my intent was to use it for that. However, I discovered so many other uses for my 3D printer that it has become quite a valuable tool for me. For example, I have made dust collection piping adapters for my woodshop amongst many other items, including stuff for my truck, and even items around the house. The first item I ever printed with my Prusa printer was a replacement temperature control knob for my wife's crock pot. It had been broke for years and that not only helped her out but won me numerous tool points :)
However, I originally started out in Fusion 360 and that is probably where I would be 100% of the time but I also work for an engineer part time, who uses Solidworks (I am a retired pro pilot BTW). I wanted to come up to speed on the program so I would have the ability to collaborate with him.

You are correct about the learning curve. It is steep, but if you have a program that is very capable, whether is be Fusion, Solidworks, Rhino or any other CAD system, it will take a lot of time to learn it. Thankfully there is YouTube, which btw, Fusion has more support in that area.

I also plan on converting my 833T into a CNC machine in the future. I have made enough connections through my engineering friend that I believe there is work to be had.
 

7milesup

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This thread has taken an interesting turn re drawings and drafting programs.
I’ve got Fusion 360 but haven’t spent enough time on it primarily because I didn’t have a need.

At the risk of utterly high jacking the thread, why would a person chose 3D over 2D?


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Oh, we hijacked the hell out of this thread, didn't we. LOL
 

DavidR8

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Thankfully there is YouTube, which btw, Fusion has more support in that area.
I believe that CNCNYC has some Fusion360 tutorials.


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davidpbest

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I use a 3D modeler in two situations:
1 - where the item I'm designing is going to be produced on some kind of CNC machine (I can go directly from the 3D model representation to a CAM output that produces the G-code that runs the mill or printer or lathe or whatever CNC machine is used to make the part), or
2 - where I need to be able to show a visual 3D representation of the part to a client - so they can see what it looks like (I do this a lot with things like furniture, kitchen cabinet layouts, some machined parts, etc.).

If I'm trying to communicate a design to someone (including myself in the shop) who is using a manual machine like a Bridgeport mill, or lathe, or for that matter a cabinet saw, I want 2D drawings that specify all the required dimensions on paper. Some 3D modelers will output 2D drawings, but often the capability is limited, so a 2D CAD package provides much more flexibility and capability to document something in paper form. Attached is an example of such a 2D drawing. I could have tried designing this in Fusion360, but the shop who will ultimately build this wouldn't know what to do with a 3D model and requires detailed 2D drawings well beyond what F360 could output (this was done with Visio Pro BTW).
 

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parshal

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LOL. It has taken a turn, hasn't it?

Current status:

I had some vinyl covered MDF that I used to make way covers. One time cleaning all the oil soaked chips from the t-slots was enough. I used some 1" square plastic strips I had and used a hand plane to get them to fit in the slots. I then used some brads to hold them in place. I made a bunch of different widths so I can cover the entire table, half and quarters depending on what I have clamped to the table. I'll post pics of them. Simple and efficient.

I've been spending the last day taking apart the Super Indexer and "fixing" things. Right now, I'm trying to figure out how to best mill the rotary table holes to line up with the bolt holes on the indexer. They're drilled about .070" off. The indexer has been a little project of it's own.

I ordered a new faceplate yesterday so that's about two weeks out.

I also ordered a power drawbar from Priest Tools. That will be a project to fit it to this mill since he's not made one specifically for it. I'm not sure if I'll try to get that working before I finish the DRO/stop or after.

Once I have the faceplate and the rotary table working I'm going to modify the plate I made for the spindle stop using some ideas from David's post where he made his on the rotary table. Mine won't be anything like his but I think I can make mine prettier.

I still have my Easson 12B with magnetic scales to install on the 1340GT. I'm going to need to figure out how best to install it and fabricate brackets and such with the mill. I have some ideas after messaging with Mark J. If my ideas are fruitful I think it'll be pretty slick. I've got a third magnetic scale for the tailstock.

I received a rotary broach yesterday and the MT3 3/4" taper attachment's hole was smaller than 3/4" so I spent an hour trying to get that to work.

I also have to start training a shorthair for NAVHDA's Invitational in September. That's a whole summer of dog training and these 'other' projects are impacting her training! How can summer already be gone?! LOL
 

DavidR8

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Apologies for the high jack!


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wrmiller

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Just kidding guys... ;)

Heck, I've probably knocked more threads OT than most. :oops:
 

parshal

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Here's the new faceplate. I could have reduced the height of the cutout by about 3/8" but, overall, it's perfect. The color matches pretty good. I had little perspective on the size of the lettering for the PM833TV and could have doubled the size. I still like the clean, simple look of it.

facebplate.jpg
 

7milesup

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Any idea how they did the lettering on that new faceplate? Looks good BTW.
 

parshal

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I don't know for sure. It's engraved with paint infill. It's from Front Panel Express, recommended by @davidpbest.
 

7milesup

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Did not know about those guys. Thank you.
 

mksj

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I have been using Front Panel Express for many years and use them for most of my system panels. They have a number of different options, I primarily use the engraving with infill color. There are also a few other vendors that except files from multiple programs, which is a limiting factor with Front Panel Express.

Example of one of their panels I did many years ago.
DSCN2236.JPG
 

davidpbest

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Mark that is quite the gizmo. I think maybe it's time I had FrontPanel do a new cover plate for my 8-track tape unit. ;)
 
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