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Acer 1440g help

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tertiaryjim

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#1
Have a couple problems so far though I've only just started working on it.
First, the gap seems to have a soft foot. What surprised me is that the bottom of the gap and the seat were completed with a disk grinder.
Thought I could expect more from Acer.
I have yet to fully re-install the gap so perhaps no change will be required, however, could anyone tell me if they've seen this before and what is the procedure to correct it.
My other problem is more of a decision I'm reluctant to make.
Here is the bottom of the saddle before I've touched it.
IMG_0417.JPG Nice job Acer! We've got at least 90% contact. NOT!
Well, I can deal with that though getting the saddle set square to the spindle is a try and true effort till it's rite sorta thing with me.
Took about six adjustments on my little lathe till it was rite.
The real problem/decision is that the saddle is about 19 thousanths high on the inboard side. Yea, it's about 0.002"/ inch from rail to rail.
Now that I have my little mill/drill cutting square and flat. I could machine the majority of the material and scrape it in. Just not certain if it's worth the effort.
Would like your input of the pro's and cons.
IMG_0416.JPG
 

middle.road

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#2
johnnyc14 had a nice write up back in '14 about his rework of the Gapbed on his CanTec 1440. Perhaps he'll chime in here.
 

tertiaryjim

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#3
Took time to think about it and realized the carriage will have to be machined and scraped. Operationaly it will make a difference. Since I'm working on it I might as well do it rite.
As it will be referenced from the cross-slide I've started scraping that in.
Also got to do some more reading of Connelly's book.
 

Richard King 2

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#4
You need to get the saddle square to the bed. and then make the head that rotates on a pin under the head straight to the bed.
The saddle needs to be .0008" / 12" out of square as a matter of fact so it faces so the part is lower toward the center of the shaft. Also the spindle needs to point toward the operator .0003 to .0008"
and this is on a EE Monarch
Look at minute 9 and then around 30.
 

tertiaryjim

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#6
Thanks! I'll check out the vids to see what can help me.
Was considering clamping bars to stress the removable gap piece and placing it in the oven for a few hours.
May still try that.

Watched the vids and all I can say is " OH! Why didn't I think of that? Thanks again.
 
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Richard King 2

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#7
If there is a big gap you hay want to fill it with moglice and wax release the smoothest side.
 

tertiaryjim

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#8
The gap section is warped and having to make a choice what to do with it I worked it till three corners can be shim'd and the 60 deg rail will line up.
The flat rail will match at the mating point but it rises 0.005" at the headstock.
Checked it out with a scraper and it can be scraped
Will epoxy bed it and add cast iron filings. The epoxy allows up to 50% metal additives by volume.
When complete I can scrape it.
This shows the bottom of the removed gap with only three corners on plane.
Also had to open three of the bolt holes as they didn't line up.

IMG_0431.JPG

The cross-slide was rather bad and after wasting a lot of time scraping it down, thinking " Just a bit more" , I put it on the mill and took off another
2.5 mills. As the top of the slide isn't flat I set it up with two points under the compound end so the compound and dovetails will line up and a center point on the other end.
That got most of the low spots. In all I removed about 6 mills. Will now have to determine if the gears will mesh OK.
Seems ACER left a rather large backlash in some of the gearing. If it won't work I'll do as Richard suggested and go with moglice.
Still have to scrape it in but it should go much faster.

IMG_0432.JPG
Sometimes remembering bad things is good.
While scraping this I remembered that I had created an error doing my other lathe cross-slide.
I mostly moved it length wise when blueing and ended up causing the ends to be low or a convex surface.
Just the other day I was blaming it on the casting but didn't remember the real cause of the problem " me" at the time.
 

tertiaryjim

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#9
Took a good look at how the feed screws line up to the gearbox and what will happen if I lower the inboard side of the saddle.
After watching the vids that Richard posted I did a good check and found the inboard of the cross-slide is 0.024" high.
The length of the cross-slide is 15" however, the OB end sticks out 4 5/8" past the V-way which acts as a pivot.
As I lower the IB the OB will pivot up almost 1/3rd that distance.
If I drop the IB side 0.003" the OB side will rise almost 0.001" for a change of almost 0.004"
0.024 divided by 3 =8, 8 x 2 = 16
So the IB side will have to drop about 0.017" to level the saddle.

IMG_0434 mark - p.jpg Added a little paint with arrows to show how the gearbox will lift up and move to the OB as the IB is lowerd. This will work for me since I found that will better line the gearbox up with the feed screws.
 

Richard King 2

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#10
What the heck are you talking about OB and IB..?????????????

Before machining anything off use some plactic shimstock and slide under the low side/end until you have it within .001 to .002. Then you will have to scrape off or machine off that amount on the opposite side of the shimmed side. Trying to use math has scrwed up more machines. The shim stock is so much more accurate.
 

tertiaryjim

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#11
Richard
I consider outboard as the side of the operator and IB as the side away from the operator.
Just helps me keep things straight. Sorry if I caused confusion.
I would agree in most situations that a simple shim or feeler gauge check gives a direct and the most accurate reading but in this case the low side sits on the V-way and I dont think that's gonna work. Will have to check out what ratio I get for adding shims under the V-way.
Have seen a formula for that but durned if I can remember where.

Edit: Forgot to mention that this thing still sits on rubber rollers and cant be leveled. Will correct that in time. For now the indicator is my goto tool.
Just had to check...

IMG_0435 - Copy.JPG Put 0.010 under each side of the V-way and each end of the carriag. It raised the carriage 0.014" or a 1.4 ratio with a 90deg V-way.The indicator returned to 0 after removing the feeler gauges.
With that ratio for a 90deg V-way I can use feeler gauges.
 
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Richard King 2

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#12
Hey...Ive been doing this as a PROFESSION for over 50 years. I KNOW shimming works!! Take those rubber pads out from under the machine and replace them with a steel plates with spot faced holes for the leveling screw bottom to sit in or in many case the machine came with special plates. I'm curious now after saying you don't think it won't work. How long have you been a machine rebuilder? How many lathes have you rebuilt?

I would not tell you how to it if I didn't think it would work. Those you tube shows... I instructed those guys and 35,000 other people to do it the right way. THe OB and IB is not something a professional that I have ever met uses. It sounds as if Acer didn't follow standard ways to build the machine as .024" is a lot. If you think about a slant bed lathe the cross feed isn't the same height front to back so if the saddle contacts on the 4 corners you might be fine. The tool when set on the center it feeds out to the outer diameter (OD) it doesn't matter if the height is the same. Not the perfect way most builders do it, but you will probably open a can of worms trying to fix it if it was built that way from the factory.

Hate to sound crabby, but this is not my first rodeo.
 

Richard King 2

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#13
If you can't align the bed with a level because the lathe is setting on rubber pads should give you a hint they are not working, How can you twist the bed to remove the taper in spindle if the rubber squashes of the feet? I have seem more people get screwed up using those things. Follow the norm of all lathe builders and use a solid foot plate. You know I was invited back to the forum to give professional advice and not guesses or experiments.
 

tertiaryjim

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#14
The tool when set on the center it feeds out to the outer diameter (OD) it doesn't matter if the height is the same. Not the perfect way most builders do it, but you will probably open a can of worms trying to fix it if it was built that way from the factory.
Thanks Richard. I had thought it would be a big problem . Will leave that one alone.
I knew when first seeing the lathe that the wheels would have to go before much of the work could be completed, but having so very little room I will have to keep it mobile for now, though it's inconveinient.
Till the lathe is down solid the level can sit in it's box.
I've done some work with feeler gauges and shims and must agree thats " almost always" the best way to go. If you check the picture I posted you'll see I shimmed under the V-way as thats the low side. Since there isn't a 1/1 ratio when shimming under such a shape and I can't use a level on it at this time, I hadn't bothered with it before.
Naw, you don't sound crabby. Just a bit frustrated that I don't move forward exactly as you would.
The lathe isn't the most important thing I have to work on rite now. Will get there in time.
 
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