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Adding Reversing Drum Switch

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Skowinski

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#1
Did a search but still unsure - will this switch work with my South Bend 9" lathe? It has a 3/4 hp Dayton motor that has an information tag on it indicating it's reversible. It's standard 115V single phase household current. The motor model is 5K4117Q.

As far as I can tell it should work, as long as I wire it correctly. Can the electrical gurus confirm, or am I off the rails here?

https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Maintained-Reversing-Plastic-2X441
 

benmychree

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#2
Yes, it should work, but the motor would need to slow way down before it will start in reverse (until the centrifugal switch goes back into the starting position).
 

markba633csi

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#3
Yep that be the one. A modern version of the famous Furnas switch. Pricey, aren't they?
 

BGHansen

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#4
I bought a couple of these off eBay for my Clausing 5418 lathe running with a 2 HP 110V single phase motor. Yeah, plastic case but it works fine. Also a couple of other options on eBay below including a "genuine" Furnas switch and the same one you have referenced above from Grainger's on-line presence (Zoro) for $51 including shipping.

I had some trouble getting my motor switched until I did some thinking on what's actually going on. I don't remember the color of the wires, but two wires in my lathe motor are swapped to switch direction. Those two need to be wired to the flip/flop portions of the switch.

Bruce

Zoro link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Switch-Dru...z1aCdML:sc:ShippingMethodStandard!48813!US!-1

Switch I bought from seller treekicker off eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/60-Amp-Dru...854649?hash=item27bf28ebf9:g:06UAAOxy83JRHD7T

Same switch as above but from China directly ($10 vs. $15 from treekicker, but the later showed up in 3 days):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/60-A-Drum-...162317?hash=item33efd6c6cd:g:UxwAAOSwfQtbUAmo

Metal cased reversing switch from a US seller:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Stock-F...Q9bIir2:sc:ShippingMethodStandard!48813!US!-1

Used Furnas switch off eBay (seller doesn't show the guts however) for $40 shipped:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Antiq...958950?hash=item3638f734a6:g:CVoAAOSwIjVawCTl
 

Dave Paine

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#5
I had some trouble getting my motor switched until I did some thinking on what's actually going on. I don't remember the color of the wires, but two wires in my lathe motor are swapped to switch direction. Those two need to be wired to the flip/flop portions of the switch.

Bruce
As Bruce mentioned, figuring out the flip/flop portions of the wiring is the challenge. I also spent a lot of time looking at the wiring diagram of my Furnas switch and the motor wiring diagram.

I made these drawings for my future reference. Your switch may not be the same, but this is for illustration.

The Off position.

Drum_switch_off.jpg
The Forward position. Terminal T5 joins to T4 and J10 joins to T1.

Drum_switch_forward.jpg

The Reverse position. Now terminal T5 joins with T1 and J10 joins with T4. Hence terminals T5 and J10 are the "flip/flop" terminals.

Drum_switch_reverse.jpg

I hope this helps you to figure out your wiring.
 

Skowinski

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#6
Thanks very much everyone, great information. Dave Paine - the wires coming out of my motor are labeled T1, T5 etc, and that switching in your drawing looks like what I've seen elsewhere so far. I think in the end it's basically just 2 wires switching places.
 

markba633csi

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#7
If you have any difficulty getting it hooked up, just give a shout
mark
 

Skowinski

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#8
If you have any difficulty getting it hooked up, just give a shout
mark
Thanks! I've ordered a drum switch, probably will get around to finishing the cabinet painting and putting the lathe back on it in a week or so, then I'll be after the wiring.
 

Skowinski

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#9
Finally getting back to this, and wanted to get another set of eyes on what I've come up with. First photo is the info plate on the Dayton motor. Second is the drum switch wiring I've come up with. In the forward rotation position it duplicates what is on the motor plate and also how it came wired (and working). When put in the reverse position it switches T5 and T8, which is according to the motor plate info. Look OK? (sorry about my chicken scratch drawing).



 

markba633csi

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#10
One error: It won't shut off; need to move T2 over and connect to T4. Only white (neutral) should be on lower right terminal.
Also (although not absolutely necessary) P2 could be moved over and join T3 on the upper left terminal.
Mark
ps You'll notice this hookup doesn't break the black hot wire when the switch is off. Not a problem really, but it bothers some people. You could in fact
swap the black and white line wires and the motor wouldn't know the difference.
 
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CluelessNewB

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#11
Edit: Never mind duplicated what Mark said above....
 

CluelessNewB

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#12
Mark, for some reason the motor is marked to have the "Ungr'd" line (black) directly connected to P1. Switching the (white) neutral rather than the hot black does bug me but for some reason the motor is marked that way. It's also marked that way for 230V which makes little sense to me since neither line is a neutral.
 

markba633csi

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#13
If you wanted to change to 220v at some point here is how to do it: (P2 not connected)
Motswdiag220a.jpeg
Interchange 1 and 4 if the rotation doesn't match the switch
 
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markba633csi

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#14
Clueless: I know, it seems goofy to me also
 

Skowinski

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#15
One error: It won't shut off; need to move T2 over and connect to T4. Only white (neutral) should be on lower right terminal.
Also (although not absolutely necessary) P2 could be moved over and join T3 on the upper left terminal.
Mark
ps You'll notice this hookup doesn't break the black hot wire when the switch is off. Not a problem really, but it bothers some people. You could in fact
swap the black and white line wires and the motor wouldn't know the difference.
Thanks! Now that's obvious when I look at it. I'll move T2 to the same terminal as T4 and white then goes to the terminal T2 was on. This results in the same connections when in the Forward position, only now in the OFF position the power circuit will be open.

What @CluelessNewB pointed out is bugging me also. So, if I swapped the black and white wires as you suggested, wiring white directly to P1 and black to the switch terminal white is on now, it would break the black/hot wire out of the circuit at the switch. That seems more logical. I guess it should work either way.
 
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CluelessNewB

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#16
My gut feeling is that you could swap the black and white, they electrons shouldn't care ;).

Here is a similar diagram for a Leeson motor with the same connections but it doesn't have that note about the ungrounded line going to P1.


leeson_mtr.jpg
 
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