Advice on lathe for home shop

[GSweldmech]

Good morning, new member here, I apologize as this is surely something that’s been covered a bunch of times but most Of the threads I’ve looked at are somewhat older and I’m not sure how much things change. I’ve always had access to a lathe at work in the past, I retired a few years ago and not having a lathe for my projects is making me crazy. I’m looking to upgrade to a “real” lathe. I presently have a atlas/craftsman 101 that was given to me. To say it’s not up to the task is an understatement. I’d like to get into a 12-14 ish lathe, something around 36-48 between centers would be about right. This sounds like a very common lathe size but right now there’s very little on craigslist and FB market place, which may benefit me in the long run as I can figure out what it is that I actually need. I’d like to get some input on which brands/models i should lean towards. I don’t have a lot of specific uses in mind, general repair jobs and some general part fabrication I definitely want a quick change gear box for threading and I’m not sure what else should be mandatory. I’ve recently seen a rockwell 14“ and a 13“ south bend that looked ok in pictures . There’s a Cincinnati 15” tray top with a DRO about 2-1/2 hours from here but right now there’s nothing else listed. One thing I’d like to find out is what parts availability is like for the various machines that are on the used market.
Thanks in advance for any input!

 

[macardoso]

Precision Matthews gets a lot of love on here and if you have the funds, I would consider them first. I got an Enco 12x36 from a machinery surplus dealer in Ohio for $1100. It has served me very well and has been a good size for working on my projects (medium sized steam engine, CNC stuff, various job shop work). I don't do a ton of heavier parts and deep cuts in steel, but if I did, I'd probably look at a larger lathe.

You can find great used machines, but be sure you know what to look for. Some will point you to old American iron. They were built so much more rigidly in the part, but make sure you love the machine for its history and are willing to have a project machine that needs refurbishment. Some have given their lives to production and are well worn. Not saying they can't be used but you will notice it affect your accuracy.

What kind of work do you do or want to do with it?

 

[matthewsx]

My advice is to get at least as good a lathe as you had at work, otherwise you are likely to be disappointed.

As for advice on this forum this is a topic that comes up every week and you will get lots of well considered replies to your questions. In general you should probably be looking at Taiwan built machines or good condition older US built if quality is a concern. China built machines are serviceable but most need some attention to make them accurate.

13 x 40 is a popular size that will fit your requirements and the PM 1340 has a strong following on here. If you have the room and power 16x60 inch lathes are fairly common used and they will be another level of capable above the 14" machines.

What is your budget, how important is support, space, patience and many other factors to consider.

John

 

[ttabbal]

Old iron can be great stuff. It can also be nice looking junk. If you want to look for used, read up on evaluating wear and how to detect it. And make sure you know how to run it so you can test everything under power. There are people that will pass off machines with unusable problems and not tell people who wouldn't know. There are also great people that accurately describe things. It can be tough to know for sure at the time. Older threads here are great for this stuff, it doesn't change as lathes in general haven't changed much. If it is in good shape, that Cincinnati sounds nice. Though I think for parts you would be stuck buying old stock / parts from existing machines. South Bend is owned by Grizzly these days I believe, and I think at least some parts are available there. Almost any parts can be made in a home shop, but that can be difficult if your only machine is a lathe or mill that has a broken part.

For new, PM, as mentioned already, is worth looking into. They have good products and stand by them. The PM1236 is commonly recommended as a good value around here. A new machine with some support might be a better choice as a first machine.

I can see how a Atlas 101 might be too small. Are there other ways you consider it unsuitable? It would help people recommend options that address those.

 

[projectnut]

As I've mentioned in a number of previous posts I'm a fan of OLD AMERICAN IRON. There are plenty of good used machines on the market in the size range you're looking for. Since you have experience with them at work I would make the "assumption" you can tell a good machine from one "rebuilt" with a spray can.
I like LeBlond's, American's, Monarch's, Sheldon's, and Cincinnati's. I have a Sheldon MW-56-P which is a 13"x 56" machine with a Worthington Varidrive rather than a gear selector spindle speed selector system. This machine dates from 1960 and has all the features of new machines with the exception of a DRO. It has spindle speeds from 60 to 2,200 at the push of a button. I was lucky in that the top end of the machine was totally rebuilt by the previous owner including spindle bearings, and grinding of all the ways. After a couple years I rebuilt the Worthington drive. I fully expect this to be the last lathe I'll need to purchase.


I also have a 10"x 60" Seneca Falls Star #20 machine. This is an older machine with flat belt drive and change gears for threading. This was my first machine and it's still used regularly today. In this case it was inherited, and I'm the 3rd generation to use and enjoy it. I do a fair amount of heavy work which was a bit hard on this machine. That's why I decided to invest in a larger one. Rather than destroy It I use it for lighter work.

Here are a couple pictures of the Sheldon and Seneca Falls machines.

 

[GSweldmech]

Wow, lots of replies, thanks to everyone! Here’s my responses to the various members: my budget is variable, more for the right machine but I’d like to keep it under 3500 ish depending on tooling. Looking at local online listings there’s a lot in the 1500 ish neighborhood but those usually don’t have much tooling included. The cincinnati thats online is a 15“ tray top with the three speed type speed settings, an accurate DRO for $2250 a 4 jaw and nothing else. One reply said get a lathe at least as good as the ones I had access to at work, my last job we had a very nice Harding’s HLV -H that I really liked, it had no lead screw but I’d love one of those, there’s several for sale in Ct. And RI but they are asking 6-8K for those and I’d like to stay under that amount. I went to sea for 30 years and we had a lathe in the shop on everyone. The last 20 or so years the ships were all Asian built with lathes that i wasn’t crazy about, metric only threading, no quick change, lead screw gears always missing etc. the older us built ships all had a south bend of some sort, most were well used by the time I ever used them. I’m a big fan of older US built tools, I have a wells 600 horizon band saw from 1958 that cuts like brand new( parts are still available from wells! ) a powermatic drill press from 1955 that’s a wonderful tool. I’ll look into the PM lathes as mentioned, I have no problem with new equipment as long as it’s not Chinese junk, (I went to the shipyard there several times and I’m still not completely over the shoddy workmanship I was exposed to years later.....)There is a used machine tool dealer not far away, I could stop in there and take a look at what he has. What are the pluses and minuses to working through a dealer rather than going through a private sale? I bought my duomill from a machine shop that was closing, it’s well used but came with a ton of tooling and cutters and was dirt cheap ( $500) they had a Sheldon lathe there but it was bigger than what I wanted. I’d love to find a similar deal, machine and several boxes of tooling to go with itI if the truth were told, I could easily get by with a smaller lathe, a heavy ten would probably do nicely but as I have the room and three phase power I’m thinking slightly larger. Thanks again for the replies, keep the advice coming!

 

[ArmyDoc]

For a new lathe with a 12-14" swing, your budget is going to be tight. The one I would look at is the PM 1236 (https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1236/ ) which is a Chinese made lathe right at the top of your budget, listing for $3600. Many say the Chinese lathes are of inferior quality compared to a one made in Taiwan, which is likely true, but if bought from Precision Matthews, you will likely find it to be functionally acceptable, even if fit and finish is not as good as in the Taiwan machines that cost ~$1500 more.

You may be able to find a used machine in your budget range more easily, depending on where you live and how far you are willing to drive. The problem with used lathes is finding one that is in good condition rather than worn out, and being able to tell the difference.

One caution, when setting your budget, one thing to bear in mind is that you could easily spend as much as your entire budget on tooling for your lathe once you get it.

There has been considerable discussion on "what to tell the new guy asking about a first lathe" recently, and some very good information submitted. Take a look a the following threads:

This is the thread that started the discussion:
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/suggested-sticky.89268/

This is where it went from there:
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...e-materials-images-we-want-to-use-here.89359/

 

[Aaron_W]

An issue with used lathes I don't often see discussed, is you are a bit at the whim of what is out there. Setting your sights on one particular brand / model may result in a long wait. It also might result in your missing out on something perfectly serviceable or even superior for your needs if you only knew about it. You are better off learning about a variety of machines that will suit you, and broadening the search. Good deals are gone quickly, so you want to know what you want before it turns up.

This is an excellent resource for finding information on (mostly) older lathes.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/


Probably one of the most difficult to assess are the older import lathes, particularly the Taiwan built ones from the 80s and 90s. Many are very well made, but parts may be difficult to obtain. If related to current machines parts may be readily available.
They have also been sold under a variety of names, some very Chinese sounding, some blatantly Americanized which adds to the difficulty.
This also can also make them a bargain since they don't have the buyers appeal of a well known brand like South Bend. The only advice I can offer here is when a lathe in the size you want comes up that has an unusual name at an appealing price, give it a good look don't dismiss it.

For parts availability of old US machines

Clausing is still around so there is some parts support for older Atlas and Clausing machines. Even where the parts are not available, apparently they are pretty good about helping with technical information. People have reported receiving advice for substitutions, or even have received technical drawings so they can recreate the part themselves.

Logan no longer makes new lathes, but they do provide parts and technical support.

Most of the other brands are reliant on finding NOS or used parts on eBay, CL, Face Book Market place etc.


Some popular machines in the size and general budget ($4000-6000 new) you describe would be the Precision Matthews PM1236, PM1236T, PM1340GT, and Grizzly G4003, G4003G, and G0709. These machines do turn up on the used market, particularly the Grizzly machines.

The machines sold by Grizzly turn up under other brand names like Shop Fox and Enco, so I'd get familiar with them as that may be your best bet for finding a relatively new, used machine of that size, and at the lower / middle of your budget.

 

[GSweldmech]

You are better off learning about a variety of machines that will suit you, and broadening the search. Good deals are gone quickly, so you want to know what you want before it turns up.

This is exactly what I’m finding, I’ve missed out on a couple lathesrecently, a Rockwell 14 and a south bend 13 that I’m finding are reasonably well suited to what I’m looking to use a lathe for. They sold pretty quickly, by the time I had researched the machines and parts availability etc. they were gone. What surprises me is that there are usually plenty to choose from in my area; now there is nothing . My plan is to familiarize myself with they various machines, their parts availability etc so I can be a little quicker if/when something decent gets listed. Thanks for the rundown of who is still supporting older machines, I’m not sure why but I’m really looking at parts availability.

 

[Aaron_W]

This is exactly what I’m finding, I’ve missed out on a couple lathesrecently, a Rockwell 14 and a south bend 13 that I’m finding are reasonably well suited to what I’m looking to use a lathe for. They sold pretty quickly, by the time I had researched the machines and parts availability etc. they were gone. What surprises me is that there are usually plenty to choose from in my area; now there is nothing . My 0lan is to familiarize myself with they various machines, their parts availability etc so I can be a little quicker if/when something decent gets listed. Thanks for the rundown of who is still supporting older machines, I’m not sure why but I’m really looking at parts availability.

I've been seeing a lot less recently on CL as well, don't know if it the lockdowns, time of year or something else. Not just lathes, tools in general, well decent tools anyway.