Another thread on a new mill purchase

7milesup

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Hi guys. First thing I would like to say is that I really enjoy this forum and the help that is offered. This is, without a doubt, one of the best sites out here on the webbidy thing.

I have been looking for a mill for a while and I need to buy one this month. I purchased a Precision Matthews 1022 lathe about a year and half ago or so. It is a pretty decent lathe for the money, not perfect, but ok. It was my first lathe and I have learned a lot on it, plus Matt’s service is great. I also have a Horror Fright mini mill that I got for practically nothing from a friend of mine. It has been a learning machine, but that is about it. It is too small and of course, the quality is mediocre at best.

This brings me to my question, or maybe just me rambling out loud so I will apologize in advance if you guys determine that I am just yammering. I originally figured I had $2200 to spend, but I may reconsider that, not that I have extra money but if I am going to be spending money on a mill, I could put a little more towards it. I also would like to have the option of eventually converting it to CNC, but that will be a work in progress due to funding.

I have pretty much ruled out a Bridgeport type because I do not want something that large in the shop and I don’t really have room for it anyhow. Also, it seems that even though I scour the auctions and machinery sites in the Twin Cities area, the stuff that is being offered is either had its life used up or it is too expensive, or lastly, such a behemoth that there is no way I could move it. All of my other equipment has wheels under it, including my lathe. I built custom stand for my lathe utilizing a hockey puck type leveling system, which works great, not that I really move my lathe around, but at least the option is there should the need arise.

I am considering the PM-30MV, the 727, and the PM-932. I figured that the PM-833T was too much money, but now I may reconsider that. I like the thought of a higher quality machine and looking at what few posts I could find about the 833T, it seems like a very nice machine. The 932 and the 940 are the same except for bed size and the hardened way option on the 940, but then again, if I start adding all that to the 940 then we are getting way out of whack for budget. Even if I did convert any of these to CNC, I just don’t see wearing out the ways on it, although I do find it odd that my little 1022 has hardened ways but these mills don’t.
I like the 30MV because of the belt drive (quiet) along with the variable speed, which does go up to 2250 RPM. It is also 110 volt, although that is not a huge deal because I do have 220 in my shop. Most of the other mills are at 1500 RPM (PM833T) to 1750RPM (PM932). Is doing aluminum at those slower speeds going to be problematic?
All of Matt’s mills have a three year warranty except the 833T which has a 5 year warranty, which is quite a long warranty.
I keep coming back to the 833T but just can’t find a lot of information about it, IE. Guys that have one and love them or hate them along with pictures of it. What are it’s drawbacks? Is the quality that far above the 932 for example, or am I better off saving my $1000 and put it towards a power feed or tooling for the 932? Ugghhhh, I’m pulling my hair out. Maybe I should take that extra $1000, which isn't really an "extra" because I don't have it stuffed in my sock, and upgrade my lathe to a PM-1340GT. Crikey, nevermind, now I have lost my mind...
 
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Also check out the pm727v (variable speed). That goes up to 3000 rpm. There is also a guy on YouTube
that CNCed the pm727m that you might want to check out. I'll look up his id and post an update...

His ID is CNC4XR7.
 
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Cool, I will check out his vid. I did not see that the 727v went to 3000. Thank you.

That 727 doesn't weigh a whole lot though. ;/
 
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I have a 727m and like it, it has done everything I've asked of it. The 727v probably would be in my shop if it was offered when I bought my mill two years ago but I have no regrets with my 727m. I would think the 727 would complement your 1022 work envelope wise but if you are thinking the lathe is starting to feel too small the 932 or 940 is probably the way to go. My two cents worth from a newbie.
 
I have a 727m and like it, it has done everything I've asked of it. The 727v probably would be in my shop if it was offered when I bought my mill two years ago but I have no regrets with my 727m. I would think the 727 would complement your 1022 work envelope wise but if you are thinking the lathe is starting to feel too small the 932 or 940 is probably the way to go. My two cents worth from a newbie.

Thank you. Yeah, the 1022 lathe is a little too small, although not that I do a lot of larger work but that occasional project I find for wanting a bigger machine. The through spindle diameter has left me scratching my head a few times on how to complete a project.

The speeds on the 932 or 833 are a little concerning, but maybe it shouldn't be? There has to be a lot of guys out there working with aluminum on these type of mills. I just did a search again on youtube for the 833 and can't find anything on it.
 
The speeds on the 932 or 833 are a little concerning, but maybe it shouldn't be? There has to be a lot of guys out there working with aluminum on these type of mills. I just did a search again on youtube for the 833 and can't find anything on it.

You can answer your own question. Decide on the size of your anticipated tooling needs, pick the cutting speeds for the materials you plan to use and calculate the speeds those cutters/tools need.

RPM = CS X 3.82 / D, where CS = cutting speed for the material in SFM and D = diameter of the cutter.

Ideally, carbide end mills need higher speeds but I, and many others, use them at much lower speeds without significant issues. In general, if you get somewhere around 2200-2500 rpm max then HSS tools will be fine. The higher you go above this the better it is when using smaller tooling and/or carbide for manual machines. CNC machines are all about metal removal rates and higher speeds so if you plan to CNC the machine then I can see higher speed capability; in that case you might want to just buy a CNC mill in the first place.
 
From a manual mill standpoint, it looks like it should not be an issue then since it is SFM dependant. As far as CNC, even if I do convert it, the reason would be more for personal use and enjoyment. Sure, if I came across something to make money with it, great, but that would not be my primary objective.
I don't see purchasing a ready to run CNC due to cost.
 
Just a suggestion, but if you can afford to keep your small lathe after buying your larger machines, I would recommend keeping it if you can. I had a 8x18 lathe and in a moment of weakness, sold it to a friend who wanted to get into hobby machining. And I can't get him to sell it back to me. :(

FWIW, the only bench mill that was of a size that worked for me was my 9x40 from Charter Oak. I kept running out of Y-axis travel on the smaller bench mills. I solved the spindle speed limitation by converting the geared head to a belt drive w/VFD. Had to replace the spindle bearings as well, for the higher speeds.

I do mostly pistol work and various one-off personal projects so I have no need for really large machines. I started with small(er) machines like you are doing, but ended up with a PM1340GT and a PM935TS mill. The lathe is almost too large for my needs, but I make it work. The quality of these Taiwan machines is significantly better than others I have owned, and worth the extra $$ IMO.

Just my $0.02 :)
 
Hi Wrmiller. Thank you for your input, I really appreciate it. What little hair I had left is gone, since I pulled it all out trying to make a decision which if I take a breath and look at the big picture, it is just a machine. It's not like a wife that is really hard to get rid of.

I did a spreadsheet last night and felt like I had narrowed it down to a couple of machines. Then I started looking at the Grizzly website and it became more confusing and felt like they had some really decent machines for the money (I have some other Grizzly woodworking machines that I am happy with). But then I remembered that the PM has true inch pitch leadscrews, which, until I convert it to CNC (I may not too, just thinking ahead a little) would be quite important, whereas I believe the Griz is a "close" metric.

I had it narrowed down to the PM-932, PM-932M (power feed X and Z) and the PM-833T. The PM-833T has a 23x11x17.5 (XYZ) travel and is made in Taiwan and looks like a really nice machine. However, it is $1000 more than the PM-932M and has no bells or whistles other than it is made in Taiwan of supposedly high grade materials with more attention to detail along with a 5 year warranty. The 932 has 22x8x17 travels and is $2098 shipped. The 932M is $2498 shipped and includes the power feeds for X & Z. Those prices are without stands because I find the factory stands, no matter what mfg, are of limited use. I plan on making my own stand and incorporating a tool cabinet of some sort, either a store bought one or I will make one from oak.

I am certainly vascillating between the 932 series and the 833. Would love to do the PM-8325S knee mill but at $4400 I just can't swing that. Grizzly also has some pretty nice looking little knee mills like THIS one, but it only has 6" of Y travel which is too small IMHO.

Oh, BTW I have a friend that calls me the wood butcher. Attached is a picture of some wood stuff I cobble together.

DSC_0536.JPG
 
I have a friend that calls me the wood butcher

Wood Butcher in deed. I've just made my first raised panel pieces, no one should call another "Wood Butcher" until he can do that.
 
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