Any Gunsmiths That Can Weigh In On Pm Vs Grizzly?

mike@meridian

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New to the forum, have been reading some of the older discussions on the PM lathes as we have no experience with the brand in our shop. I recently sold off our Birmingham Lux-Matter 1340G Taiwan import (for various reasons) and am in the market for a new machine to replace it. Several others in the industry have pointed us to Grizzly, however I'm seeing issues with QC, motor mounts, fit/finish and so on that keep coming up. A comparable alternative seems to be the Precision Matthews offerings. The following pair of machines are the ones we are currently comparing:

PM-1440E-LB vs. G0776 -OR- PM1236 (with upgrades) vs. G0750G

I would love to hear from anyone really, gunsmith or not, on your own experiences with these brands/models, but before you weigh in, here are our needs and wants in terms of our use of the machine in our shop:

Our Usage:
Threading primarily 1/2x28, 5/8x24, 9/16×24, .578×28 and LOTS of M14x1 (left hand)
Turning down barrel OD at various journals
Occasional monocore suppressor and K baffle manufacturing (Yes we have our SOT)
Crowning, facing, knurling and other typical processes
Light chambering work (not used very often)

Size:
36 to 40" (we seldom turn barrels greater than 24", most are 16-18")
-On that: The more compact 1236 models would save on space and perhaps suit our needs better but the weight, bearings and potential for larger work has us looking back at another 1340 or 1440 model as well.

Features:
QCTP is a must (wedge preferred, piston is acceptable)
DRO option would be wanted
Outboard spider would be a nice feature but not a definite must
Coolant system is preferred but we can easily add that if needed
Single phase power preferred
Warranty, service and support

Budget:
$3k-$5k

I keep coming back to the G0776, as it has the most features for its price and is essentially priced comparably to the PM1236 or G0750 WITH the DRO added to the cost. Thoughts?

Thanks much,
-Mike
 
What about the PM13-40GT? That is the same size machine you just got rid of, it is also made in Taiwan instead of mainland china, and from all accounts on here is a fine piece of craftsmanship. I cannot speak from experience, but, the reviews and discussions on here leave me with the impression that is a great machine for the money.
 
Without experience with Grizzly I can vouch for Matt and the PM people. They do more than is needed/required to keep the customers happy.
 
I am saving my pennies for a new lathe and would not purchase from anyone othe than Matt. I have a PM-25 and his service is beyond anything else I have received in my life from a company. As long as here mains in business I will remain his customer.
 
Matt goes over and beyond - i thought i was his only customer. I own a pimped out pm 1236. Strong machine. Cruddy paint job - if i could do it again i want the larger 1340 Taiwanese. Don't need extra bed ways but want the fit and finish of that one. Sorry no gun making. I will make up for it with PM 935 TV Mill


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I would think the PM-1440E-LB would be the more optimal machine vs. the G0776, both come with DROs and most the features you are looking for. The PM1440 has another 500Lbs in iron, and everything is a bit bigger. Price is pretty close too, I actually think the PM1440 may be cheaper, since shipping is included. There have been quite a few discussions on the machines listed, they all have some quality issues for the most part based on other reviews, they are made in China to a price point. One major difference is a 3 year warranty with the PM machines vs. 1 year with Grizzly. The PM-1440E-LB has a wider range of feeds, all the models listed require a few change gears (PTA). Can't comment on there abilities to do metric threading.
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/would-a-pm-1440e-lb-make-a-good-gunsmithing-lathe.26202/

Also to consider is the PM1440-BV in a variable speed version : http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1440B.html

Another major factor may be if you already have tooling and chucks from the previous machine and what will fit the new machine. I looked at the G0750G when I was looking for lathes, seemed to have too many limitations and very few people seemed to own one, the PM1236 seems to be very similar. Many of us looking in a similar sized machines, including myself ended up with the PM1340GT, it is well made and a pleasure to use, but it will push you up on the budget. Very short headstock, no change gears, does what you want it to do without much fanfare. I can hold close tolerances with it to better than 0.001" routinely. There is also the 1440 version of a similar model in a Taiwanese machine. One consideration is thinking about a 3 phase machine with an RPC or VFD, the motors are more durable and the finish would be expected to be better.

As you are doing worth getting feedback, but also would talk to Matt and see what he recommends as far as machines he carries. There are also machines that may not be posted on his website.
 
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Mike, this probably outside your original choices but I'll chime in anyway. I been gunsmithing over 30 years, and making my living at it for over 20. I do a lot of barrel work, and most of it is repetitive setups. A good choice in a machine will save you lots of time and money in the long run. That's why I wouldn't consider either machine you are looking at. As one professional to another, I would recommend a Jet 1340BDB. Belt drive makes the difference in 2 ways: There are no problems with harmonics and bad vibes to affect finishes, let alone there are less gears in the train to wear. The headstock is shorter, meaning you can get shorter barrels all the way through it. Believe me, I'd had my share of lathes, and the only ones I kept were belt drive. I'm sure the other lathes are fine for hobbyists, but for making a living at gunsmithing, the Jet is the best suited for that purpose.
 
Derf makes a good case for the belt drive. Can't argue with it. I do own the G4003G and absolutely love it. I have made a number of gun parts for myself including chambering barrels and it does a great job. It seemed to me when I bought it that the G0750G had less capability and from others comments I still believe so. The PM1340GT would be a great choice, you would need to incorporate a spider in the back of the spindle. Somebody on here drilled and threaded spider bolt holes in the spindle that turned out awesome. I think the 12" offering is too similar to the grizzly 750 I wouldn't want. Just my own thoughts.
Dave
 
Mike,
1.) I bought the PM1340GT and drilled/tapped the spider by hand (pics in the thread link at the bottom). I also did an upgraded, three-phase Marathon motor (just for the fun of it really) with the Hitachi VFD ( a lot of modifications, mind you). Also ordered coolant system, DRO, "preferred package" with upgraded chucks.
2.) If Matt Nadeja sold a wooden, hand-cranked lathe, I would probably buy it over a grizzly still, because he is THAT engaged before, during, and after it's delivered to you. You wouldn't believe his dedication to his customers. I have had some special challenges with my setup, especially the stand, but it's awesome now, and largely due to Matt answering a LOT of my calls and emails.
3.) I didn't do anything originally. I have simply copied what the guys did on this awesome forum, mostly, starting out, it was Mark (mksj) and Mike (zmotorsports), then others too. Duplicate them, and you're set. You won't believe the knowledge those guys have, especially Mark. And it was Mike's youtube video that single-handedly swung me to buy the PM vs a Grizzly, and I'm so glad I ran into that. You wouldn't believe how fun this VFD makes using this machine (with the fully programmable chuck braking, infinitely-variable chuck speeds with POT, fwd/rev jog (with modifications of course), etc).
4.) Made in Taiwan vs China = very good in all ways.
5.) I'm doing all this in between full time active duty orders, and full time single dad, so I'm just now getting ready to true Rem700 actions, thread/chamber match barrels, etc with this thing, so I'll try to update how it actually goes, but so far, this machine is so smooth. You wouldn't believe the fit and finish compared to the grizzly. No offense, I'm sure the grizzly machine does good work for others.
6.) This will be more than $5k, so you decide if you can "upgrade" to the PM for a little more.
7.) Having said all that, I would most certainly inquire with QMT (Matt) about the new PM-1440GT that is about to come out. Could be an upgrade from even the PM1340GT. But, there is also one BIG question I would ask first: what is the length through the spindle compared to the 1340? Reference my post in the link below with pics that show how short the length is from outboard spider to chuck. That was one of THE biggest reasons I bought this machine - very short spindle length.

7.) I could have just linked this thread instead of writing 1-6 above:

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/my-precision-mathews-pm1340gt-arrival.24887/page-10

RIO
 
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When I bought my G0709, the grizzly competition at that time was the G0750, and the G0709G QCGB was significantly better. But looking at the G0776, the QCGB gives you about the same range of threads before you have to swap gears as the G0709, and with the DRO it is a definite win. The G0776 also have some nice touches that the G0709 doesn't have (like the end cover over the change gears is an opening panel instead of a removable cover). If I was only looking at Grizzly, the G0776 would probably trump the G0709. No way I would buy a G0750.

Conclusion: G0776 > G0709 >> G750.

But if I did it again, I probably would have gone for the PM1340G. Made in Taiwan, better quality. It does have the open Norton QCGB, but that is not a bad thing (you can get all inch thread combos without changing gears, IIRC. Btw, this is also true of the G4003G).

I might also at this point wait to see what initial user reports are on the PM 1440G.

Conclusion: PM1440GT > PM1340GT > G0776

What decided me for Grizzly vs PM was that I live 3 hours away from a Grizzly store, and just picked it up one day when a business trip took me that direction.
 
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