Any Gunsmiths That Can Weigh In On Pm Vs Grizzly?

[mike@meridian]

Mike, this probably outside your original choices but I'll chime in anyway. I been gunsmithing over 30 years, and making my living at it for over 20. I do a lot of barrel work, and most of it is repetitive setups. A good choice in a machine will save you lots of time and money in the long run. That's why I wouldn't consider either machine you are looking at. As one professional to another, I would recommend a Jet 1340BDB. Belt drive makes the difference in 2 ways: There are no problems with harmonics and bad vibes to affect finishes, let alone there are less gears in the train to wear. The headstock is shorter, meaning you can get shorter barrels all the way through it. Believe me, I'd had my share of lathes, and the only ones I kept were belt drive. I'm sure the other lathes are fine for hobbyists, but for making a living at gunsmithing, the Jet is the best suited for that purpose.

That's absolutely a valid point. We had considered Jet after running one of their machines at a trade show in Nashville last year, specifically the GHB-1340A. Enco offers this model for $4114.49 (plus the stand and shipping) when they run their 25% off coupon, and its capabilities are within range. What ultimately turns me off of Jet every time I look back into them is the lack of certain features that are included in other brands at or near the same price (no QCTP, no coolant, no DRO, no spider, no stand, 2 year warranty, D1-4 spindle, etc). To be fair, my opinion of them has been negatively biased since I was a defense contractor some years ago. There was a fair amount of Jet tooling in our facility. The lathe was down more than it was up and the shop had substantial issues with parts and support as I recall. Granted, this could have been an isolated incident. Import machine-wise, I simply know of more gun shops that have Grizzly, Turn-Pro or Enco mills/lathes than Jet. I've looked at several used belt drive models, but just get into more of the issues that brought me to sell the old Lux-Matter to begin with. New, used, import, domestic -- lots to consider on the market today for smithing.

 

[mike@meridian]

Mike,
1.) I bought the PM1340GT and drilled/tapped the spider by hand (pics in the thread link at the bottom). I also did an upgraded, three-phase Marathon motor (just for the fun of it really) with the Hitachi VFD ( a lot of modifications, mind you). Also ordered coolant system, DRO, "preferred package" with upgraded chucks.
2.) If Matt Nadeja sold a wooden, hand-cranked lathe, I would probably buy it over a grizzly still, because he is THAT engaged before, during, and after it's delivered to you. You wouldn't believe his dedication to his customers. I have had some special challenges with my setup, especially the stand, but it's awesome now, and largely due to Matt answering a LOT of my calls and emails.
3.) I didn't do anything originally. I have simply copied what the guys did on this awesome forum, mostly, starting out, it was Mark (mksj) and Mike (zmotorsports), then others too. Duplicate them, and you're set. You won't believe the knowledge those guys have, especially Mark. And it was Mike's youtube video that single-handedly swung me to buy the PM vs a Grizzly, and I'm so glad I ran into that. You wouldn't believe how fun this VFD makes using this machine (with the fully programmable chuck braking, infinitely-variable chuck speeds with POT, fwd/rev jog (with modifications of course), etc).
4.) Made in Taiwan vs China = very good in all ways.
5.) I'm doing all this in between full time active duty orders, and full time single dad, so I'm just now getting ready to true Rem700 actions, thread/chamber match barrels, etc with this thing, so I'll try to update how it actually goes, but so far, this machine is so smooth. You wouldn't believe the fit and finish compared to the grizzly. No offense, I'm sure the grizzly machine does good work for others.
6.) This will be more than $5k, so you decide if you can "upgrade" to the PM for a little more.
7.) Having said all that, I would most certainly inquire with QMT (Matt) about the new PM-1440GT that is about to come out. Could be an upgrade from even the PM1340GT. But, there is also one BIG question I would ask first: what is the length through the spindle compared to the 1340? Reference my post in the link below with pics that show how short the length is from outboard spider to chuck. That was one of THE biggest reasons I bought this machine - very short spindle length.

7.) I could have just linked this thread instead of writing 1-6 above:

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/my-precision-mathews-pm1340gt-arrival.24887/page-10

RIO

Thanks for the input on the PM1340GT. I've looked at this several times as an option for our shop. The video Mike did on his was insightful, had not seen that. However, prior to this discussion, I kept concluding the PM1340GT was overkill for our needs at it's price point with all the options I'd want. Now, this probably was a bad call considering how many machines I've upgraded over the years vs. buying a bigger/better item to begin with... We ran a VFD on our old Lux-Matter 1340G. Loved the convenience of it and having the 3 phase motor with single phase service. I like the feedback on the PM1340GT, especially vs. a Grizzly near the same price. It would be above our desired price range with the options needed, but it's in the running. That aside, good luck with your orders. KYARNG Field Artillery (enlisted) Ordnance (commissioned) here. -Mike

 

[RIO]

NYANG (Used to be Springfield, Ohio ANG F-16 driver)
Thanks Mike, good luck with your decision for a lathe. All above are probably fine options.
Hooah!

 

[tmarks11]

... lack of certain features that are included in other brands at or near the same price (no QCTP, no coolant, no DRO, no spider, no stand, 2 year warranty, D1-4 spindle, etc).

Just a note, the QCTP on the Grizzly is cheap and awkward to use. On of my first upgrades was to replace it with a Aloris.

If you get a lathe without a QCTP, I can send you the Grizzly BX QCTP cheap.

former navy bubblehead here.

 

[coolidge]

Just a note, the QCTP on the Grizzly is cheap and awkward to use. On of my first upgrades was to replace it with a Aloris.

If you get a lathe without a QCTP, I can send you the Grizzly BX QCTP cheap.

former navy bubblehead here.

^^^ ditto love the Aloris, check out the Aloris #71 and #8 tool holders in particular. Another member figured QCTP were all the same and purchased some China wedge QCTP and it was FAIL! I forced him to go with an Aloris by buying him an Aloris CXA QCTP, a #71, #8, and a couple #1's and #2's. He said there was a huge difference.

 

[mksj]

Dorian also make very nice QCTP, but I prefer most of the Aloris holders because they are more uniform size wise. The Dorian over sized holders can be a problem with tool height. When Enco has their 25% off or 20% with free shipping, their prices are hard to beat for the Aloris sets/holder. I picked up my Dorian set from MSC on one of their "sales", but with state tax it was was just ok pricing wise.

You mention that the PM1340GT is overkill, but relative to something like the PM-1440 I would consider it more of a light weight. Price wise, probably 20% more with the deluxe package, but you get a lot of very good quality items for that addition sum. Also depends if you have existing tooling and chucks that would fit it. As others mentioned, a VFD adds a lot on all levels, the cost to add it would be the same for all the machines if not less for the PM1340GT. The stock 3 phase motor works well with the VFD, otherwise there is the Marathon motor that Rio added.

 

[derf]

If you look on the Jet website, all of their lathes are on sale till the end of the month. The have several packages, and 2 choices of DRO's. The rest of your requirements will have to be tailored to suit your particular needs. I bought mine in April of 2000, and it's sees daily use, and so far I haven't had any major problems other than normal wear & tear and maintenance.
When I purchased mine, I opted not to get the stand and build my own. Not to save money, but I wanted the spindle height to be the same as my other 2 lathes, which is about 4" higher. Not only that, I liked the idea of a chip pan drawer for easy clean out.
The first thing I done was to set it up with a 8" 6 jaw adjust tru chuck, which has never been taken off since I got it. That was a big investment (about 1500 bucks)but it has paid off in the long run saving 100's of hours in set up time.
Over the last 10 yrs or so, I mentored a handful beginning gunsmiths, some went to work for other shops, some went on their own. Most every one of them ended up with an import lathe, all gear head types. When they come to my shop to visit and see my set up, they are ALL jealous to a degree, and they all have horror stories.
Do the research, choose wisely and make a sound investment, the payoff is down the road.

 

[sanddan]

I'd like to second the comments on the Aloris QCTP. I replaced a Phase II BXA with the Aloris and was amazed at how much nicer it felt. I've always had problems with the Phase II main stud that holds it to the compound not staying in adjustment and also with some holders not fitting. The Aloris is well worth the extra money, I used a 25% off coupon at Enco and got the set with 2 holders.

 

[Wood&Metal]

I have to agree with many of the frequent posters to this forum concerning the PM1340GT. After doing my research I bought the PM1340GT from Matt (also purchased a PM923 mill) and have never been sorry. The lathe is awesome! And the support from Matt as well as several on this forum is second to none. I did most of the upgrades, including the 3 phase motor / Hitachi VFD setup. I have friends that have the comparable Grizzly lathe and they are seriously considering upgrading to the PM system. Between the quality of the equipment, the outstanding support from Matt at PM and the knowledge and assistance from this forum, go with the PM1340GT or PM1440, you won't be sorry.

 

[NoobCanuk]

I don't know about the bigger machines since mine is a 1030V. But I can comment on Matt from PM. I agree with all the posts I read so far (I havn't read the whole page of comments yet). Matt goes WAAAYYYY above and beyond for his customers. He treats each of his customers like they are his ONLY customers. He goes so far out of his way I'm expecting him to show up at my door one day to do maintenance for me on my machine. LOL But from what little experience I have had with him so far he has always gone far beyond what I would expect from any store or business to support his customers.

Just my 2 cents though.