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ARC-170's Craftsman 101.07403 lathe restoration thread

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ARC-170

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#1
I just bought a Craftsman 101.07403 lathe. It is in dire need of taking apart, cleaning and lubing. I have some questions:

1. The spindle bearing might be shot. It turns by hand but feels "crunchy" (I believe that is the proper technical term). Could need replacing. How do I get it out to tell? I may try putting some oil in the cups in the meantime. I'd like details, not just "pull them out". I've never done it, so I need pictures or links to how to do it. Whatever ya got!

2. What oil/lube/grease do I use for lubing the various parts? Is there a table or list somewhere? I couldn't find a manual, just a parts list.

3. What should I clean this with? I'm thinking Simple Green and rags. Lots of rags. Can I use a wire brush, and should it be steel, brass, plastic or bristle? Can I use a wire wheel on a drill or should this be done by hand? Can I soak the rusty bits in Evapo-Rust? What do I use to clean the "varnish" off? I've seen references to "varnish" several times, and am wondering exactly what that is referring to? Dried up oil on the ways?

4. Is the original paint on this baked on or sprayed on? My lathe has what appears to be paint spill/spatter on it (white dots in the pictures). The original paint is in pretty good shape, so I don't want to mess it up.

5. Is the spindle threaded on with a reverse thread? Mine is stuck on really good. After I spray Liquid Wrench on the thread I want to make sure I'm rotating the spindle in the correct direction. And, what kind of tool can I use to get some leverage? There are no flats on the spindle that could grip a wrench. And if the gear that engages the spindle lock is Zamak, I don't want to break it.

6. Can someone direct me to pictures of what the lathe looked like new so I can see if I'm missing any knobs, ID plates, etc? I think there is a knob missing on the cross slide. Or, just tell me.

7. When referring to my lathe what is the proper way: 101.07403, 101-07403 101 07403 or does it matter?

If you like, just list the number and your answer, especially if you only answer one or a few of the questions.

Some pictures for reference:

BACK I took the motor off to make it lighter to unload.
craftsman lathe (1) small.jpg

FRONT I took the motor off to make it lighter to unload.
craftsman lathe (2) small.jpg

GEARBOX
craftsman lathe (3) small.jpg

CARRIAGE I seem to be missing a knob.
craftsman lathe (4) small.jpg

CROSS SLIDE
craftsman lathe (5) small.jpg

CHUCK
craftsman lathe (6) small.jpg

DRIVE
craftsman lathe (7) small.jpg
 

dlane

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#2
Make swarf , and your parts with it, if it needs help fix it.
 

Z2V

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#3
ARC-170
Have you looked through the “ downloads “ for the info you need? I can’t answer your questions but you might find it there.
Nice score on the old lathe
 

wa5cab

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#4
1. It is more than likely that the spindle bearings are OK, just bone dry. Do not turn the spindle any more until you have them properly lubed. If you have to do it, the detailed instructions for disassembling and re-assembling the headstock are in an Atlas Technical Bulletin in the Atlas section of Downloads (to access Downloads you must be a donor because Downloads is one of our significant monthly expenses). Read the instructions for using Downloads that are up above in the Sticky section first.

If the oil cups have felt disks in them, remove them temporarily and run several cup fulls of oil through the cups before you turn the spindle again.

2. The factory recommended oil for every place on the machine except the open gear teeth is SAE 20 (ISO 68) non detergent motor oil. I would use way oil on the ways and dovetails but you can get by for the time being with SAE 20. For the gear teeth, use a high temperature graphite bearing grease.

3. Simple Green is OK but I would use Varsol. Wear surgical or mechanics gloves as it will dry your skin out. I would use steel or stainless seel bristles on unpainted metal and brass on painted. Do not use a wire wheel on a drill or grinder. Varnish is dried oil. It can be removed with Varsol and steel wool or preferably 3M nylon pads with no grit. I didn't see anything in the photos rusty enough to warrant disassembly and soaking.

4. No one really knows but I would assume that the paint on the castings was baked on.

5. Both ends of the spindle are threaded right hand. If the spindle nose and chucks and other accessories had left hand threads, they would unscrew every time that you used the lathe. The factory way to break a not-known-to-be-stuck chuck loose from the spindle is to rotate the chuck until the socket for the chuck key is at TDC, engage back gear without pulling out the direct drive pin, insert the chuck key into its socket, grasp the key with both hands, push the key and chuck away from you, and then pull smartly toward you. If two trys of that don't break it loose, it is officially stuck. Try that only after you have soaked the threads with a good penetrating oil such as Kroil repeatedly for several days. If the second try doesn't break it free, stop. All of the cast gears in the machine are Zamak. Crank the jaws out and clamp a 12" length of 2x2 in the jaws, sticking down between the ways. Wrap a large strap wrench around the bull gear (the large spindle gear) and use it to break the chuck free. It may take several days of soaking and trying.

6. The five things that I spotted in your photos that are either missing or incorrect are the knob on the power cross feed shaft that sticks out the front of the apron up under the cross feed crank and bearing, one of the two handles on the compound feed screw crank, the motor ON-OFF switch in the hole in the rectangular plate on the left front of the headstock, and the threaded lever on top of the tail stock that tightens the tailstock ram locks are all missing. The nut that retains the crank on the cross feed screw is not original. The nameplate with model number should be either on the rear of the bed or on the right end of the bed, depending upon vintage. The Serial Number is stamped into the top of the right end of the front way. The ON-OFF switch escutcheon (plate) is present. There are no other plates on this vintage of lathe.

7. Sears model numbers consist of two or three digits that ID the contractor who built the item, a period, and three to six digits. Thus 101.07403 However, almost all internet search engines are too dumb to ID punctuation marks so as long as you don't write it as 10107403, you can usually find it.

The lubrication instructions are on pages 7 and 8 in any MOLO that would be appropriate for your machine.
 

NortonDommi

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#5
Nice lathe. Looks as if it has done little work. I like Kerosene for a wash down before going to far as it penetrates well and can loosen thing up. Well worth find as much documentation first and then a total strip down as it looks like it has been sitting a while.
 

mickri

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#6
The chuck on my lathe was stuck on pretty solid when I got it. I did not want to damage any of the gears. I used the drive belt like a strap wrench to hold the spindle. I used PB Blaster for a penetrating oil. I put a chuck key in the chuck with the key pointing towards me. Used light taps on the key until the chuck came free.

My lathe was covered with a layer of dried on oil/dirt when I got it. Used primarily carb cleaner to remove the oil/dirt. Also used WD40, brake cleaner and dish soap. For a scouring pad I used the non scratch blue pads.

I used white lithium grease because I had it on hand on all of the gears and shafts and 15/40 wt oil again because it was what I had available on the ways and in the oil caps. I have also used 3 in 1 oil at times on the ways. Probably not the best.

The MOLO has a wiring diagram. It may or may not be correct for your motor and switch.

After getting your lathe cleaned up and running one of the first things that you are going to want is something other that the lantern style tool posts. They are a pain to use. Most people buy one of the many styles of qctp. That can get very expensive in the blink of an eye. I decided to make a qctp. After researching on the web I went with a norman patent style qctp. Easy but time consuming to make at least for me. I have a thread on my qctp build in the machine accessories forum.

The fun begins
 

ARC-170

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1. I've heard there are some kind of wick in the oil cups. Where do I get these? Where would I get some kind of oil pan?

2-5. Thanks for the tips! I'll try all them and see what happens.

6. Where is the best source for parts like these? I've looked on Ebay and found a few of the parts. Just wondering if there is anywhere else I should look.
 

ARC-170

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#8
After getting your lathe cleaned up and running one of the first things that you are going to want is something other that the lantern style tool posts. They are a pain to use. Most people buy one of the many styles of qctp. That can get very expensive in the blink of an eye. I decided to make a qctp. After researching on the web I went with a norman patent style qctp. Easy but time consuming to make at least for me. I have a thread on my qctp build in the machine accessories forum.

Where is a good place to buy one? I've looked at a few designs and it seems people make them as well. I just want options. The retail ones are pricey!
 

ARC-170

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#9
I have a thread on my qctp build in the machine accessories forum.[/QUOTE said:
I couldn't find this. Can you post a link?
 

mickri

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#10
I have not seen any of the homemade/diy qctp for sale anywhere. You will have to make them. The norman style that I chose can be made with a lathe and a drill press. No need for a mill although having a mill to cut the slot is a plus.
Here is the link to my thread on making a norman style qctp. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/tool-post-holder.69487/
 

ARC-170

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8. I was looking at various retail QCTP holder sets. What is the stud with the nut and washer for on all the QCTP tool holders? I've used this type of holder before but none of them had this. The height adjustment on the ones I've used is done with a socket screw; this stud appears to just screw into the same place as the socket screws that hold the tool bit. Can someone clear up my confusion?
 

mickri

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#12
Are you asking about the norman style like I am making or the aloris style? A picture would help.
 

markba633csi

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#13
ARC: the gib screws on your compound need to have nuts to lock the adjustment-
Mark
 

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wa5cab

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#14
Yes, I missed that. None of the compound gib screws are original. They should look like the four on the cross slide, except a size smaller.

It is unlikely that they will need replacing as the steel ones usually last forever. But if you do, I have the steel gibs available, new manufacture. The factory switched to plastic ones in the 1970's, one of the few mistakes that they made.

The stud, knurled thumb nut, light spring washer, and hex nut on the top of most QC tool holders are for setting the cutter height.

One problem with making you own QC, or one of them, is that of the #101 or #102, you will need several. Which adds to the time expended. The reason that you will need several is that with only one, you lose a large advantage or the QC over the lantern type holder. A typical job might call for one turning cutter, one facing cutter and one beveling or chamferring cutter. Every time that you needed to change cutters, you would have to go through the setup procedure to get the new cutter on center. So you aren't much better off than without a QC. Counting some 101XL's, I have around 15 of them. Pretty much anything that I need to do, I just grab the holder with the appropriate cutter.
 

mickri

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#15
I have realized the same thing with my norman style qctp. I am almost done with the first 7 tool holders and can see where I will need at least 4 or 5 more. It has taken me a long time to make them. On the other hand the cost has been minimal. Being retired I have nothing but time and I am learning a lot along the way. I have two boring bar holders, one holder for parting and one holder for threading. The other three holders I plan to have one for facing, one for turning and one that will be used for whatever I happen to need until I get more made.
 

ARC-170

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#16
Are you asking about the norman style like I am making or the aloris style? A picture would help.
3900-5350__45689.1480600501.320.320.jpg
What are the posts on the tool holders that have gold and silver nuts for?
 

ARC-170

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#17
What if I got a QCTP that held four tool holders? I could set all four up and just rotate the post, correct?
 

wa5cab

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#18
What you are describing is called a Turret tool post or 4-Way Turret, not a QCTP. They are generally better than the lantern type (and by the way, the lantern type has one advantage over the QCTP, which is that on rare occasions they may allow you to get the cutter into the work without the TP being hit by or hitting something but generally not as convenient as the QC. The other problem with the 4-Way is that you can't always mount four cutters in it because when one cutter is selected, another one may be hitting the work, chuck, etc. And if one of the cutters installed is for facing, it can't be installed in the position CW of the turning cutter because it would be crossing the turning cutter. Just bite the bullet and get the QC.

Also, the 4-way does not use separate cutter holders. The cutter is mounted into the 4-way just as it would be mounted into the QC holder. And finally, there is no way to adjust the cutter height (to get it on center) other than by shimming up under the cutter in the 4-Way.

I answered your final question yesterday but somehow it is above the question. The gold nut is the height adjustment and the silver one locks it in position.
 

ARC-170

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#19
9. I'm looking for a change gear set. I need 24, 32 (x2), 36, 40, 44, 46, 48, 52, 54 teeth gears. This is from the parts manual for this particular machine, so I'm assuming it's accurate, I've found a few sets on ebay, but they are missing one gear and might have an extra one. Should I buy a set that is not exact, or wait until a complete one comes up?
 

mickri

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#20
You might never need the missing gear. You can always buy the gear that is missing if you should happen to need it. I would go over the threading chart for the gears needed to cut common threads and any threads that you anticipate cutting to see if the gear set for sale has the gears you need. Be sure to check for the gears needed to cut the common metric threads. It is my understanding that atlas/craftsman has a chart listing every possible thread that can be cut on a change gear lathe.
 

wa5cab

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#21
I agree. While a set that has exactly what you think that you need would be better, single gears do show up as well as sets. AFAIK, the 101.07403 parts manual that is in Downloads is accurate in this respect. I am about to release Revision 8 but the changes are limited to cleaning up some of the text for better legibility.

Note that the full change gear set for a 101.07403 is 15 gears. It includes five gears that were always on the machine when it originally shipped. These gears are 20T x 2, 56T and 64T x 2. So the full set of change gears for a 101.07403 is 15 gears. Plus one spacer which should always be on the shaft containing the screw gear. Also, be sure that all of the gears that you buy have an "A" suffix to the part number. The original 10" and 12" change gears had part numbers of the form "9-101-nn" where "nn" is the tooth count. These were supplied on all lathes equipped with 5.8" diameter lead screws except for the 101.07402. These gears have a nominal 3/8" face and 3/8" hub length. The Revision "A" gears (part numbers "9-101-nnA"), still have a 3/8" face but the hub length was increased to 1/2". The original gears can actually be used on the later machines but will require two 1/16" thick double-keyed spacers to make up for the shorter hub length.

Note that access to Downloads is limited to donors because the expense of maintaining the Downloads section is a significant part of the site's monthly expenses.
 

ARC-170

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#22
10. How do I determine which taper I have on the tailstock? The only tooling that seems to fit is a live center that has "NO 2#" written on the box. I'm guessing #2 Morse taper, but want a way to confirm this.

It's 0.715" in dia at one end, 0.59" at the other and approx 2.35" long. Doing some math gives me a taper angle of about 1.53 degrees which is pretty close to what a Morse taper angle is for this size (1 25' 49". I couldn't measure it any better than the significant digits given so I'm sure there's some error in my calculations.

None of the other tooling I got with the machine fits the tailstock. They appear to be tapered sleeves that hold a #2 MT on the inside, but are way too big to fit in the tailstock. Am I missing something?

Would this work in in my lathe? It's an ER25 so it goes up to 5/8" diameter. Would I want/be able to put bigger diameter cutters in my lathe? I guess I could use a boring bar to make bigger holes, but I have some bigger drills I can use.
https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=5450&category=-421559299

ER32 goes up to 20mm (0.78") so that might be better. I could use them in the mill as well.

I couldn't find any MT2 to ER32 adapters, just MT2 to ER20 and ER25, so I'm guessing this is the limit. Am I correct?
 
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T Bredehoft

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#23
I was able to find an MT2 to ER40, a couple of years ago. You aught to be able to find anything in between, I'd think.
 
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mickri

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#24
Your tailstock has a mt2 taper. The headstock has a mt3 taper. The sleeves are probably mt2 to mt3 adapters. You can find er32/mt2 collet chucks on ebay. I searched for "er32 collet chucks" and got numerous hits. Here is one example https://www.ebay.com/itm/MT2-ER32-C...=item5689450044:g:4ykAAOSwAtlaqOza:rk:26:pf:0 You will also find er32 / r8 collet chucks to fit on the mill. Some of the er32 collet sets come with a mt2 chuck and the wrench.
 

wa5cab

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#25
Jeff,

As micri said, all Atlas built 9", 10" and 12" lathes came with a 3MT spindle and a 2MT tailstock ram. They all originally shipped with a 3MT x 2MT reducing sleeve which has the distinction of offering the shortest conversion of any adapters that I have seen. When installed in the spindle, almost all of the sleeve is inside the spindle so that a cutter or holder with a 2MT arbor doesn't stick out much farther than it would if the spindle had a 2MT taper to begin with. All other commercial adapters that I have seen add about 3" of stickout. Because of this, Atlas shipped two 2MT dead centers with their lathes instead of one 2MT and one 3MT.

As far as the ER collets holders go, there are two types that will fit on an Atlas. One type screws directly onto the 1-1/2"-8 spindle nose threads like any other chuck. It's only drawback is that as with any other threaded chuck, you can't safely do any turning, threading or facing with the motor in Reverse. Otherwise, it is the preferred version as since you don't need a drawbar, up to 3/4" diameter it allows the work piece to stick through the spindle bore so that if you were making several small parts out of round stock, you wouldn't have to pre-cut the stock to rough length but can use long stock, make the part, and part it off with minimum stock wastage.

The other type will have either a 2MT or a 3MT drawbar type arbor that the chuck is attached to. Its major disadvantage is that you can't pass the work piece through the spindle. Plus it usually results in a little more stickout. Its advantage is that you can safely turn and thread in reverse. If you were contemplating doing a lot of left hand threads, it would be your choice. Otherwise, for most work the screw-on type would be preferred.

The only disadvantage I can think of to the ER style collets is that for production work where the part and not the cutter is being held in the collet, they are the slowest. In order to load and unload parts, you must stop the lathe and pick up a wrench.

And I always like to add to any discussion that involves MT arbors that you should never ever use a Tang type arbor on any cutter or work piece holder mounted in the spindle. If you do, sooner or later (and probably sooner) the arbor will pull out of the taper and at best you will only ruin the work piece.
 

mickri

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#26
I am in process making an er32 collet chuck to fit on the spindle of my lathe. Making an er32 collet chuck is a good project. You have boring, internal threading, machining an internal taper and external metric threading. Or you can buy one from Beall. http://www.bealltool.com/products/turning/colletchuck.php
 

wa5cab

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#27
I took a look at what Beall has to offer. I was surprised to see that although they offer a 1"-8. which will fit the Craftsman 101.07301 and a 3/4"-16 that will fit a 101.07300 (if there are still any of those around in working order), they do not offer a 1"-10, which would fit the 612, 618, 101.20400, 3950. 101.21200 and 10100. Has anyone ever asked them why not? I know that 3/4"-16 fits a lot of larger wood lathes but there are a whole lot of machines with 1"-10. Just based on the highest serial numbers in the database, Atlas alone made more than 72,927 of them.

Anyway, although I have MT, 3AT and for historical reasons 5C and a 5C chuck, I may buy an ER32 chuck from them next year. I just wish that 5C went up to 1-1/2" instead of only 1-1/16".

ADDENDUM: The reason that I would go up to ER32 is that it will handle up to 3/4" diameter, which is the largest diameter workpiece that will fit through the spindle bore of an Atlas/Craftsman 10" or 12".
 
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middle.road

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#28
......
Anyway, although I have MT, 3AT and for historical reasons 5C and a 5C chuck, I may buy an ER32 chuck from them next year. I just wish that 5C went up to 1-1/2" instead of only 1-1/16".
Hehe, 3AT, haven't seen that for awhile. Several years ago I bought a set off eBay to fill out mine for the Logan. Haven't used them at all, dang it.

Darn shame you don't know your Atlas/Craftman lathes, always amazing your depth of knowledge of them. :grin:
 

ARC-170

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#29
I didn't even think about the spindles! DOH! I have several tang-style MT#3 tapers that fit. They are pretty rough on the surface; any way to clean them up?

I haven't cleaned the machine yet; I'm doing another project in the garage and am waiting for that to be done and out of the way before I make another mess with the lathe. In the meantime, I thought I would take advantage of deals that may be had this time of year and see about getting any tooling.

I bought some R8 collets for the mill, but I may take another look at the ER collets, since, as Mickri pointed out, I can use them in both machines with adapters. wa5cab/Robert has given me some more info (thank you, sir!) to think about as well. Again, I have to wait until the big project is done before setting up my mill and lathe. I figure I'll ask questions and get ready to roll in the meantime!
 

ARC-170

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#30
My lathe appears to be missing a few parts. I have numbered the hole/feature where I think something is missing or that I have a question about to make discussion easier. The feature in question is to the right of the number.
IMG_1216 cropped with numbers.jpg
1. There is nothing missing. I just want to know if this type of bolt is this original? It looks newer.
2. The knob is missing. How is it attached? The shaft has a hole in it at 90 degrees to the main axis.
3. What is this bolt for? The parts diagram isn't clear to me.
4. What is this?
5. Is this hole for anything?

IMG_1217 cropped with numbers.jpg
6. This is for the locking screw on the tail stock, which I know I need.
7. But, what is this for? It's just a hole.

IMG_1218 cropped with numbers.jpg
8. I bought a thread dial. I know I need the bolt to attach it, but what goes in this hole? Another bolt? What does it do? Does it clamp the thread dial?
IMG_1219 cropped with numbers.jpg
9. These are labelled "oil". Do they unscrew? Do I pour oil down them? I don't want to try unscrewing them until I know I can.
10. These look like the wrong bolts. They also need lock nuts, correct?
 
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