Beauty in The Beast: Webb 5BVK Barn Find/Conversion

rabler said:
I give you credit for jumping in and tackling several significant projects simultaneously while still trying to keep reasonable goals in sight.
Click to expand...
Appreciate that.
Know it can look like spaghetti at the wall sometimes.
Takes one to know one I suspect.

JimDawson said:
This whole project is really at a decision point. It is so easy and really less complex to to just add a controller to run the thing, even in manual mode. On my machine when operating manually I use a combination of keyboard jog and hand cranking to accomplish the task. Besides the spindle VFD controls, I only have an E-stop and an Enable button as physical buttons, everything else is done on the computer screen with a mouse click. Eliminates an incredible amount of wiring.
Click to expand...
Ok.
The above lays out the non full CNC play.
My approach on cables (going forward...) will be to disconnect in the big box and feed out and up into the upper box, or out to the component they are controlling.

Suppose I have two questions then
1. How many of each of the links do I need to buy.
2. What is the shopping list if we just go straight to CNC?

Even if imperfect for choice - once I understand the components - I can shop them a bit for size and attachment ease.
Perhaps we should just make the leap now.
 
Charlieman22 said:
Ok.
The above lays out the non full CNC play.
My approach on cables (going forward...) will be to disconnect in the big box and feed out and up into the upper box, or out to the component they are controlling.

Suppose I have two questions then
1. How many of each of the links do I need to buy.
2. What is the shopping list if we just go straight to CNC?

Even if imperfect for choice - once I understand the components - I can shop them a bit for size and attachment ease.
Perhaps we should just make the leap now.
Click to expand...

I think it is better to disconnect the cables at the upper box and feed them back into the lower box. There are some control cable that we will want to leave connected in the lower box. Only remove cables and wires from components that you are going to remove per the list above. Leave the cables going to the motors and limit switches connected. This will save time later. If you can identify and label the cables it will be very helpful.

Links? Not sure what you mean there.

I'll get a list together.
 
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OK, this is all the major components, there will be a few more bits & pieces of minor hardware.


QTY 1 I use these in all my machines, and have installed about 75 units over the last 20 or so years. This is the best deal I could find on eBay at the moment. I would make a lowball offer and see what happens, I have purchased these for as little as $100. These retail at about $2400.
www.ebay.com

Galil DMC-4040 motion control | eBay

Used, working condition.
www.ebay.com
Galil DMC-4040, 4 axis motion controller

QTY 1 Power cable for above
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/molex/2451350220/6564767
2 Position Cable Assembly Rectangular Socket to Socket 6.56' (2.00m)
Mini-Fit Jr 245135

QTY 4 Encoder connectors
DB15HD Male Connector:
BRKSD15HDM-C

QTY 1 I/O connector
DB44HD Female Right Angle Connector:
BRKDD44HDFV2-R-DIN

QTY 1 I/O connector
DB44HD Male Right Angle Connector:
BRKDD44HDMV2-R-DIN

QTY 2 Cables for I/O connectors

Amphenol CS-DSDHD44MF0-002.5 44-Pin (HD44) Deluxe HD D-Sub Cable - Copper Shielded - Male / Female 2.5ft

Buy 2.5ft Amphenol CS-DSDHD44MF0-002.5 Cables Direct from the Factory at Cables on Demand. 44-pin (HD44) Copper Shielded High Density Male/Female D-Sub Cables by Amphenol provide exceptional performance in commercial, industrial or enterprise applications where longevity and repeated disconnects...
cablesondemand.com cablesondemand.com
44-PIN (HD44) DELUXE HD D-SUB CABLE - COPPER SHIELDED - MALE / FEMALE
CS-DSDHD44MF0-002.5

QTY 1 Not required but nice to have. I have this same one on my lathe and have beat the hell out of it, it is still alive after two years of abuse.
www.ebay.com

Universal CNC 4 Axis MPG Pendant Handwheel & Emergency Stop for Siemens US xs90* | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Universal CNC 4 Axis MPG Pendant Handwheel & Emergency Stop for Siemens US xs90* at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
Universal CNC 4 Axis MPG Pendant Handwheel

QTY 1 Relay interface for digital outputs
5V Relay Module with Optocoupler Isolation

QTY 1
Any Win7 or Win10 computer or laptop, I prefer a Mini PC. keyboard, mouse, monitor, and ethernet cable
 
Jim - and anyone who is reading this.
Honestly - I'm kinda blown away.
It's not just a shopping list - it's a road map.
This bit alone is worth the price of admission.
JimDawson said:
QTY 1 I use these in all my machines, and have installed about 75 units over the last 20 or so years. This is the best deal I could find on eBay at the moment. I would make a lowball offer and see what happens, I have purchased these for as little as $100. These retail at about $2400.
Click to expand...

Mind you -
If I don't have any questions/ challenges - means I haven't looked closely enough.
Thank you for putting in the time to outline this for me.

For anyone else following.
I will try and create a price list for the items - so we all get a snap shot of costs.
For me - this has always been a "when", not an "if".
Cost is not a nothing issue - so it has its affects on "when".
Lemme read and digest - will post back with my findings.

Oh - and nice touch on the hand wheel.
You knew I wouldn't be happy without it!
Caused a chuckle.
 
Ok - quick browse through.
I'm in.
Two biggest items of price swing: DMC 4040 (Will take your advice on low ball) - and "mini computer".
So first question:

Surprisingly - Amazon lists from ~$550 to $150.
This one is at the cheap end/ well rated/ Amazon recommended.
Any reason I wouldn't go here/ are the specs below target?

 
I don't see the ability to accept a hard drive in that one.

This one is $10 more and and will accept a hard drive and has Win10 Pro. A better choice I think.

I have one similar sitting on my desk, it will actually run Fusion 360. That one is going into my CNC plasma cutter, if I ever get it built.
 
Ah - CNC plasma cutter.
I will know I have arrived when I have one of those...
I'm probably a little intimidated by CNC in some ways.
But entry through a machine with handles and a "manual pedigree" seems just the ticket.

Thinking the Ditron DRO will go very nicely on the new lathe - when I take it off the mill.
Just what the dr. ordered to allow me to us MM when working on my Vespa - back to " when not.

You may recall - I went ahead and grabbed the version with a hall sensor for RPM.
The Webb would benefit greatly from being able to use something other than my ear for setting speed.
I think I can find a means to put the hall sensor on the machine - though I don't know how/where yet.

Question: in our config for CNC - what would it take to be able to use a hall sensor for RPM = and do you think it's needed or will I learn to adjust manually?
 
10 years ago I couldn't even spell CNC and I was scared to death of it. :) All that new fangled stuff to learn.

You do have the dial on the front of the machine head that will give you the RPM, close enough anyway.

BP style heads are a real PITA to extract the RPM because the only thing that turns at spindle speed is the spindle, and that is buried in the works. There is a gear in there on the non-CNC heads that might work with the Hall sensor, but even it moves vertically. I have seen a system that a guy built coming out the top of the housing, off of the top bearing, but with a power draw bar you couldn't access that area. There may be a way to get some kind of sensor in there, We just need to figure out how to do it.

What I did on mine was remove all of the variable speed hardware and built a direct timing belt drive, and just hung an encoder on the motor shaft. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/mill-spindle-direct-drive-conversion.49130/#post-414141
 
Right: C AND C.
Well - I guess I am jumping in too.
Have a question:
I see a number of the DMC 4040 units on Ebay.
Is there a reason not to try and low ball a few and see what I get - or was there a reason that you chose that particular one?
(they have an automatic "declined" when I tried 3 different amounts.)
Not opposed to writing the check - just trying to be smart about it.
 
That one was the the lowest price that I ran across in a quick search. It looks like there are a couple more today at a bit lower price from China.

There are several different part numbers in that series depending on options. Some even have built in servo drives, but most of the built in drives are not suitable for your machine. Buying one with a built in drive will not affect the operation if used without the built in drive. There is one part number that would require different cabling, so maybe hold off on buying any connectors and cables until you have a Galil unit.

Bottom line is that any of the DMC-4040 series will work.

Just as an aside, I normally would not buy used electronics, but the Galil units are almost bullet proof. I have only had two failures in over 20 years and about 75 units. One was a nearby lighting strike that wiped out a bunch of other electronics in the factory. The other was an installer error who crossed 220VAC with the 24VDC bus. That was not pretty. :faint:
 
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