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Bolts for mounting new chuck

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The_Apprentice

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#1
So, I want to try mounting my collet chuck onto the flag tomorrow. I don't have extra M8 bolts (the others are inside the 3-Jaw). From my checking it's a typical 1.25 thread.

I the collet chuck itself is threaded, and then the bolt will to through the flange holes. I need about 35mm of length to make it the right length, but most bolts in this category I've looked at only thread partway up the bolt length when they get that long.

I think I have a solution from Lowes:

https://www.lowes.ca/bolts/the-hill...metric-mm-serrated-flange-bolts_g1187026.html

I will make a stop tomorrow, and pick up a few extra washers too, as I've noticed every bolt I look at does not thread all the way to the cap, but has a little gap.

I'm just checking in here first for word, as I'm not sure if any old timers looking at this are cringing and about to say "Hey Idiot! That's not the type of bolt you use for a lathe chuck. You need... a heat-treated, x-rated, blah, blah, thingy-merbober-bolt for that type of job!"
 

benmychree

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#2
Likely, I would use socket head (allen) capscrews, and counterbore them into the flange if there is enough thickness. Hope I did not cringe too much!
 
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#3
Do yourself a favour and find a Home Hardware nearby, e.g. 3639 Portage Road, NF. They have a great selection of SHCS as well as bolts. (Grade 8 even)Those Lowes bolts are like butter. You should not be using washers for this.

35mm sounds a bit long for a collet chuck mounting to flange?
Can you post a photo with metric scale alongside?
 

dlane

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#4
Old timers made things that keep working, unlike nowadays . Them cheesy bolts will work, for a while
 

The_Apprentice

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#5
(Grade 8 even)Those Lowes bolts are like butter.
The sample I picked up at Home Depot (and Lowes Today), are 8.8 grade, so I think we are good there?

One thing I noticed putting 2 of the bolts on today, is the 35mm are actually too short. Now I see why the lathe came with super-thin nuts. LOL.

I may have to grab 40mm instead (but I don't think they come fully threaded), and if too long, I can put an extra washer or two under the caps.

Was going to show a pic for today, but my iPhone died. May get around to it later.

Originally there were split-washers that came with the other chuck, the but old-timers around here tell me lathes shouldon't use those, and to go with flat-washers intead.

That said, before I screw on the new chuck all the way, I think it is time I take off the head-stock and look inside. There is more grinding over time going on, and maybe something wonky in there with the gears.

My main 2 worries are,

1. How to make sure I put it all together right again when done. LOL
2. How to make sure I don't end up putting the head-stock on crooked, etc.

So, seems tomorrow will be quite a learning experience one way or another... I will probably try to view some youtube videos on dealing with the head-stock later tonight.
 

Bi11Hudson

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#6
I can't, of course, directly answer your questions.
I do, however, have some thoughts that might pan out in your situation:

The first thought that came to mind when I read your question was a similar situation that I faced in the mill. i.e. A bolt that needed threads up to the head. In this situation, I needed a 6mm X 1mm pitch. With no 6x1 all thread within miles, I used some 6x1x40(?) long setscrews with nuts and washers. They were a pain to get nuts onto them but held quite well. Still running, I hope, though I've been gone for years.

Now, to rechecking the truth of the head(stock), I will unequivitively recomend "Rollie's Dad's Method" of setting the truth. It can be found at several sites. The one that comes to mind is "Metal Web News". Sorry I can't provide a link on short notice but a search should turn it up fairly quickly. Very slow process, but quite true at the finish. The best part is that a dial indicator (edit) is the only fancy tool needed. And a piece of round bar that doesn't even need to be perfectly straight. ReBar would be a little too loose, but a piece of pipe would do to start.

Hope that I helped;
Bill Hudson​
 
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The_Apprentice

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#7
At this point, I seem to have worse things to tackle than checking the head-stock.

I spent hours today re-building the lathe. Even did an electrical test forward & reverse before putting on the final covers etc.

Put in the new chuck and then I notice the lathe is 100% dead. Doesn't even try to turn. Played around with it but motor refuses to even try to start.

Ohh well, another mystery to solve, I'll wait until tomorrow and then take another look at the electrical. Maybe something started to bind or twist when I put the panel back on, or something else going on there.... There definitely was not much room to play with.
 

Ken from ontario

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#8
Check the fuse?
 

The_Apprentice

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#9
First thing I was going to check. Looks like the wire inside the fuse is still fine. Geeze... I took another look tonight, played around, no juice. Don't understand what the hell happened. LOL

I guess I will have to take a close examination of possible pulled wires, etc. And find some basic troubleshooting steps somewhere.

My yellow & green wires are screwed in correct at least?


IMG_7653.JPG
 

The_Apprentice

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#10
Update!

Looks like I may have found the source of the problem. There is a blue wire that's been ripped from the soldered connection. This blue-wire groups with a brown and is connected to that black thing which sits on top of the lathe and shuts it off when you lift the cover over the chuck.

Unfortunately this safety feature is so much a problem and in the way that I never care to use it anyway. I would be happy to just cut the other brown wire and eliminate this safety feature altogether, but I guess it would not be that easy.

Looks like I'll have to buy a soldering iron and the rest of it, if I can't find a spare in my step-dad's group of tools I have piled around here.

IMG_7654.JPG
 
B

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#11
Ah, safety switches - if the machine doesn't work without all three if your hands on them it's hard to hurt yourself with it...

You can join the brown and blue wires and it should work, the headstock shield has only ever got in the way, lathes I've used!

Dave H. (the other one)
 

The_Apprentice

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#12
I do not recall ever seeing these chuck-cover safety-devices on anything in production, or even in schools for training. I'm not against the gimmick, but for my work it's just a pain. Sorta like spring-loaded chuck-keys. I never get lazy and leave the key into the chuck, not even for a second as I don't allow myself to get into that habbit.

Today or tomorrow I'll pick up a soldering iron, and do a test with the brown & blue leads.
 

The_Apprentice

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#13
So!

The mystery thickens...

After purchasing some solder and an iron today, I got ready to attack the problem, then realized I am not actually sure which of the 50 connections, this wire pulled away from (and that's assuming it is not a red herring!)

I tried a few things, and no luck. I sure hope I do not have a dual-failure here. Did some posts on a mini-lathe group, but so far nothing concrete. I will probably contact King Industrial just in case they know where the blue wire is supposed to connect to. Or maybe I'll get super lucky and someone else who has a King 7x12 could pop off the electrical box cover on their own, and trace it for me. :p

My next plan is to find my old voltmeter (assuming I still have it and it works). As a double-check, I may try to look for an extra 5x20mm 5 Amp Fast Action fuse. The only problem is locally they only sell them in 120v form. I suppose I could order from LMS, but the shipping would be 5x the item cost. LOL

Speaking of FUSE, there is a suspicious glob of solder hanging against the fuse holder. Hmmmm......... a clue?

Who would have guessed how installing new chuck BOLTS would turn into something like this?

IMG_7723.JPG
mystery.jpg

numbers.jpg
fuse.jpg
 

Ken from ontario

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#14
Who would have guessed how installing new chuck BOLTS would turn into something like this?
You're not alone, it's part of learning or gaining experience and it does cost time and money but I'm sure that's no consolation to you right now.
I am totally clueless when it comes to solving electrical problems , let's hope someone can chime in and shed some light , are these the same fuses you're looking for? if they are, it'll take only 3 weeks to get here :
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/5x20mm-Quic...454380?hash=item44195f55ac:g:yzgAAOSwHQ9WX7tt
 

The_Apprentice

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#15
Yup, that 240v looks like the type. Though I was planning just needed one or two, not a whole case-full of various sizes to last 20 life-times, LOL.

My electrical knowledge can certainly do with some enhancement, so one thing is for certain, I'll come out ahead here when this is finally solved. It seems odd that a 120v operating single-phase lathe would use 240v fuses, etc. but from what I understand, this is the norm with just about all mini-lathes. Either rated at 3A or 5A.

The following document has been quite an informative read for me:
https://littlemachineshop.com/reference/drivetroubleshooting.pdf

Very simple, but well written, and clean.
 

The_Apprentice

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#16
So, I finally found my old voltmeter today. Success!

But it was soooo full of corrosion inside from the batteries after sitting in there for years. Fail!

I will pick up some new batts, and see if I can get some life out of this thing still. If so, I'll see what else I can do to clean up some of the corrosion mess inside.

volts.JPG
 

The_Apprentice

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#17
Spent some time examining the blue-prints of wiring the circuit boards from LMS. Unfortunately, my KING seems to have gone off with a different way of wiring things up entirely. So no luck there.

I did find a B&W photo from the distributor, but it is very hard to ascertain what is going on as it's a poor B&W photo, and some wires are actually missing even. Grrrrr... at least I felt I was getting a little closer...

I may end up experimenting with my new Mill, and leaving my lathe as a side-project for now...

Screen Shot 2018-03-18 at 11.52.29 PM.png


Update!
Finally! Around 3 am we had some success. I was reading about a line interruption feature that can kick off if the system feels a power failure has occured. I believe this may have been tripping me up, and why I wasn't getting results when connecting the blue lead to the fuse as I had initially suspected.

Back to success for now, tomorrow I'll do the re-soldering, and see what else I manage to ruin in the process.

IMG_7734.jpg
 
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Ken from ontario

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#18
So you got it working, that's great ,you must be relieved,it would be a good idea to take a few pictures of the wiring and save them for reference.
 
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