Boyar-Schultz 612

When moving the part in and out and trying to hit against a shoulder, one does not need to be fighting a ton of backlash. Our current B&S has been causing problems in making tooling as the table moves in and out uncontrolled while feeding from left to right. Gibs are set tight but to no avail. We took a look at the leadscrew and the center section is so worn that the thread is now more like a standard 60 degree instead of acme. Near 0.050”! The brass nut has nothing left to give as the adjustment will not allow smooth action from end to end of the leadscrew. We have been searching for a less worn or NOS but there is nothing out there. We have looked at replacing with a ball screw which would work as the lead screw is protected fairly well from the grinding dust. It is just more economical to find a newer or new machine.

The magnetic chuck has to be ground flat if it has been removed and put back, otherwise it may not hold size across the whole surface.
 
There are a bunch of things that work together to get accurate grinding out of any SG. The ways have to be tight, the saddle has to move back and forth without much sideways slop, the spindle has to be smooth, the motor has to run without too much vibration (and add many more to this).

On the minus side, there are many things that could destroy accuracy. a non-flat chuck. burs on the chuck,. grinding dust under the part. Poorly dressed wheel.the wrong hardness of wheel for the material. Ohmigosh - add many more here...)

Now all that being said, most grinders can easily achieve a half-thousands of an inch easily, even in inexperienced hands. The closer your tolerance, the harder it is to achieve. To hold a part to 20 millionths, for example, takes a lot of fussing by a very experienced hand. (not me) :(
 
I know nothing about a surface grinder.
They work in an abrasive environment from day one, it’s hard for me to imagine a machine that wasn’t worn out after considerable use.
If I ever find one, I would want someone that knows what to look for to accompany me.
There are some Boyar Schultz grinders around, I was not aware parts are not available.
Are there any, “safe” brands to consider in the event parts are required?
I can see how new Taiwan made grinders may be a viable option.
 
When moving the part in and out and trying to hit against a shoulder, one does not need to be fighting a ton of backlash. Our current B&S has been causing problems in making tooling as the table moves in and out uncontrolled while feeding from left to right. Gibs are set tight but to no avail. We took a look at the leadscrew and the center section is so worn that the thread is now more like a standard 60 degree instead of acme. Near 0.050”! The brass nut has nothing left to give as the adjustment will not allow smooth action from end to end of the leadscrew. We have been searching for a less worn or NOS but there is nothing out there. We have looked at replacing with a ball screw which would work as the lead screw is protected fairly well from the grinding dust. It is just more economical to find a newer or new machine.

The magnetic chuck has to be ground flat if it has been removed and put back, otherwise it may not hold size across the whole surface.
Thanks for the reply, Pierre. My B&S 2L from 1946 likely has the original Z axis (carriage toward and away from the column) lead screw. It looked really nice after carefully cleaning it and the nut when putting it back into service. Backlash in that axis is .040+" on the .250"/rev dial. That does not seem to cause any problems so far, though I have done little work against a shoulder, and that work was light. What should I be looking for?
 
I know nothing about a surface grinder.
They work in an abrasive environment from day one, it’s hard for me to imagine a machine that wasn’t worn out after considerable use.
If I ever find one, I would want someone that knows what to look for to accompany me.
There are some Boyar Schultz grinders around, I was not aware parts are not available.
Are there any, “safe” brands to consider in the event parts are required?
I can see how new Taiwan made grinders may be a viable option.
Parts for surface grinders from defunct companies are rarely available new, and used parts off another machine may be better or worse than what you have already. Getting parts for even newer Chinese machines is often a crap shoot, often taking lots of time and frustration, the replacement parts not fitting at all or an incorrect part finally delivered. More respected Asian brands like Jet and others (mostly Taiwan made) that have been in business for decades seem to do a much better of servicing what they sell, but their parts are not cheap, and can still take time and effort to get the correct part in your hands. And obsolete machines also often have obsolete parts, even with the best companies, a business reality. But, we are machinists and often not just parts changers. With sometimes significant time and effort, we can make many of the parts we need. Machine tool reconditioning in our shops is quite possible, but does have a significant learning curve to be able to completely rehab a machine to working, like new, or even better standards. Some people love to rehab old machines, other just want to make parts on them. Look yourself in the mirror and have a sober conversation with yourself on what you hopefully might be able to achieve and what you might _actually_ achieve. Be honest with yourself. I see lots of carcasses of old machines sitting around partially disassembled and gathering dust in hobby machinist shops. "Some day soon" can be a long time -- or never...
 
I'll definitely make sure it's in good shape.
For $1800 asking price it should be. One hub included so that is a slight disappointment. I'm only shopping and in no hurry as I have a small surface grinder at the moment but would like something larger.
So if Boyar-Schultz are the Chevy's what are the Caddy's?
If you ever do buy a larger one and decide to sell the Sanford let me know.
Bill
 
Are there any, “safe” brands to consider in the event parts are required?
I can see how new Taiwan made grinders may be a viable option.

A quick note professional firms like Suburban Tool tend to have a lot of Reid and Chevalier grinders, but prefer to rebuild them rather than buy new. A gear manufacturer near me has bought all the very old 24" shapers it can find, in order to rough gears quickly. There's a reason for that. the older castings are 'real' Meahinite (I think I spelt it wrong - sigh) instead of the poorer quality cast iron available today. Those old machines can be rebuilt almost forever, and hold accuracy well when used right.

So an obsolete grinder in today's shop might very well do anything you will want to do in your lifetime. It is just there are a few bad apples that will claim they are great when they are not rebuildable. Buying new is expensive (more than double the cost of a good used one) and is almost as risky. I would be wary of the current crop of cheaper grinders - they weigh half to a third of the old iron, so they are less rigid and have far less 'reaction mass'. That mass helps to reduce the effect of vibration and impact of the wheel itself. Lighter machines in general have worse finish and harder-to-achieve accuracy.

Take heart - there is a grinder out there for you! Keep looking. Another strategy is to visit a shop a week, and ask the forman if they have a grinder that is not being used. Mine came from a shop where it it had been 'sidelined' in favor of a CNC grinder. I paid pretty good cash for it, but I'm very happy it's mine.
 
I recently picked up a B&S 2B surface grinder that was built ~1935. It had been rebuilt by Pope with an Excell-o cartridge spindle at some point. Looked like a POS when I brought it home. Paid $200 for it, basically scrap value since it weighed over 1400 lbs. Came with a B&S magnetic chuck, one spindle adapter and two wheels (one brand new). I tore it down for complete cleaning. The spindle was 440 V only so I modified it for a single phase 1-HP motor.

After dusting off the chuck it did the 5 block test and checked them on my surface plate with a tenth's indicator. All were within 0.00015 of each other. Plenty good enough for anything I would need!

So, sometimes you can find a diamond in the rough!

Good luck in your search,
Ted
 
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