[4]

Boyar Shultz Deluxe auto lube system

[3]
[10] Like what you see?
Click here to donate to this forum and upgrade your account!

Grandpop

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member ($10)
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Messages
78
Likes
75
#1
I have a 70's Boyar Shultz Deluxe with the automatic lube pump. Have noticed that the pump does not seem to be lubing the machine like it used to be (no excess oil anywhere after I last cleaned it). Took all the guards off and the table to check the ways. Noticed that nothing coming out the top tube that drips on the top of the elevating bevel gear, nothing on vertical ways for spindle elevation, 2 of 4 holes on the V way for the table have oil, 1 of 3 on the table flat way has oil. Pulled the saddle off to check underneath. Does not seem to be any oil dripping down onto the cross screw/nut (supposed to collect at bottom of V way and drip on down another drain hole).

I started disconnecting the compression fitting oil lines and blowing them out with air to see if the lines are blocked. Appears that all of the lines are open, but the metering valves that screw to the machine may be blocked completely (can't force anything thru with air in either direction) or partially blocked. I managed to strip one of the 4-way rotated Tee cast aluminum (or zinc?) distribution fittings taking the compression sleeves off/on. Never saw anything that looked like it before, and sure enough nothing on the web to match. I am in the process of making a new one.

Can't figure out what to do with the pump to check it. No name, p/n or markings on the lube pump. I assume it was Bijour, but am just guessing. Can't find pictures of anything that looks like it on the web. Pump is full to top of sight glass with hydraulic oil, and shaft is turning in correct direction. I seem to remember that the little plunger would lift periodically (every couple of minutes) which would then force some minute amount of oil out. Nothing happened with the plunger for the 15 minutes I check ran it. Is there any way to adjust the frequency of the pump plunger lifts?

That Boyar Shultz design was copied by several others back in late 70s / early 80s (MSC, ENCO, Chevalier, Sharp, etc), so must be a fair amount of grinders with those pumps still out there. Anyone ever had the pump apart before? Anything to fix in there or is it toast?

Recommendations on cleaning or replacing the metering valves?
 

Attachments

Bob Korves

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
5,690
Likes
6,002
#2
I think the pump has a filter in it. You might see if it is plugged.
 

Cadillac

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 12, 2018
Messages
457
Likes
484
#3
I recently went through my Boyer Shultz challenger model. It has a similar oiling system. There’s a motor which is in the box connected to reservoir. If I remember it spins like 5rpm really slow. The motor has a cam on it which engages the oiling spool in the pump. That’s why you see the rod going up every 30 seconds or so.
First I would remove motor and turn it on to see if it’s working. That could be the problem. Also make sure their is no binding of the engagement of the cam to the oil spool. The motor is weak and if theirs binding it won’t have the power to force it.
Then with motor disconnected try manually pulling on oiling shaft. Does it pump? Mine didn’t have any seals of sort. Spool was a perfect fit to housing for building pressure. If it’s worn that could be the fault?
If pump is moving fluid then you need to check you metering valves. They clog easily just a sinistered filter might need replacing. People try cleaning and you might be able to but it won’t be easy. For the price I would just replace for reassurance. Maybe 10 dollar a pc. Mine had three if I remember correctly. Look closely on fitting it will have size of meter stamped on it and direction. Can be bought through McMaster under metering valves.
I know any oil is better than none but hydraulic fluid isn’t a good way oil. Not very tacky and additives might give problem in system. Viscosity might be to thin to pump in this pump too??
 
Last edited:

Technical Ted

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
641
Likes
614
#4
Does the unit have a patent number on it? If so, look it up on the web and you might get lucky and get some info that way.

Good luck,
Ted
 

Grandpop

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member ($10)
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Messages
78
Likes
75
#5
I was able to buy all of the metering units and the fittings, so waiting on the shipping for them to arrive. Yes the vertical oil line to top of the column was completely dry, so ordered a spare meter unit for that one in case it plugs again!

The pump spins and runs about 700-800 rpm according to my contact rpm meter. Not sure how long it is supposed to go between pumps? Seems like they made from 2-60 minutes. Removed it from machine and it is Bijur type C-2662. Can't find any information online, so will try calling them direct.

Anything tricky to watch out for taking the top half of the pump off?
 

Grandpop

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member ($10)
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Messages
78
Likes
75
#6
Received all of the metering valves, adapters, hose and fittings. Ordered them all from different places (nobody had all of them that I needed). Called Bijur, and very helpful. They do not have much info on the old pump, but still sell the filter ($22) and the valve ($170). Could only tell me that they made 4 different timed models (5 min, 15 min, 30 min, and a 42 min). Also said if the gears are not stripped they usually run forever.

I took the pump apart, it is really easy. Took the filter off, and a metering valve above it, then soaked them overnight in Purple Power. Came out nice. Cleaned the gunk out of the inside, and even managed to clean the sight glass window with a portion of a q-tip. Put it all back together.

While I had it apart, I cleaned everything and ordered a new bellows for the cross screw. McMaster wanted $95 each for a 12 in length, and need one for front and one for back. So I ordered a 24" one for $97, and cut it half. They pull apart easy, but when they go back towards the stops the bellows get solid and stop the motion. Had to fool around a bit to make sure I didn't loose any travel, but went back on great. Put all the new oil meters, adapters and fitting in the saddle, and put the saddle back on. Hooked up the hose and started pumping the little piston rod on top of the pump. Took almost 5 minutes but finally came out all of the holes, and even drips out of the top oil tube now.

Tomorrow I tram the V on the saddle back in, then drop the table back on. I am thinking I will have to take the chuck off and grind the table, then put the chuck back on and grind it in. Hopefully it will be easier to crank now with better lube.

I guess I should have done all this when I first got the grinder. I was in a hurry to use it and got carried away. Hope I learned my lesson.
 

Bob Korves

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
5,690
Likes
6,002
#7
The improved oiling will probably get your SG sliding smoothly again. If so, great! If not, first look into lubricants. Are you using the oil recommended by Boyar Schultz on the sliding surfaces? If, not try it. If you are not using something like way oil now, that could be a large part of the problem, stick slip. Also, if the ways are worn enough that there are few to no pockets to hold oil, that very commonly causes stick slip. A cure is to cut a checkerboard grid using a hand scraper, with cuts about 1/4" long and wide on the sliding surfaces, so they can hold oil instead of the ways pressing it out. The cuts alternate with the existing flat surface, and do not need to be deep. A light stoning with a fine, flat India stone to remove the burs after scraping and then a good cleanup will help a lot. Oil the ways well on both sides before assembly. Your problem must be addressed, friction causes wear as well as harder work...
 

Dabbler

Administrator Trainee
Staff member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Oct 11, 2016
Messages
579
Likes
424
#8
When I got my SG, all of the oil had congealed in the lube system - it had the consistency of a gummy bear candy. All the bijurs had to be replaced because their filters were clogged with this mess and wouldn't dissolve, even with xylene. your pump may need a complete disassembly and clean if this is the case. I found that vigorous brushing with varsol had the best effect.
 

Grandpop

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member ($10)
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Messages
78
Likes
75
#9
Got the saddle trammed back in; it is just held on with 3 bolts. I slid a 2" dia bar back on forth in the vee while swinging an indicator from the hub, ended up within .0015 per 14". Going on vacation so it will have to wait this way for now.

I always re-grove / re-mark way marks that are gone or nearly gone before reassembly. The rear side of the table V was smooth - no marks left except out at the very ends. Rest of the table had visible marks, but very shallow so I redid them. The top of the saddle has the hardened inserts, and bottom side is suppossed to be smooth, so you don't touch either of those. The top of the base that the saddle rides had most of the marks, but shallow. Re-marked all of that too.

Yes there was tons of varnish, and gummy bear like, especially in the pump. Got the varnish off with purple power and a xylene rinse as best I could, but didn't disassemble the entire pump. Working for now, so will see what happens as I use it. I can always buy the Bijur spare pump valve if I have to.
 
[6]
[5] [7]
Top