Carbide Tools With Shaper

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Pete301

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Any one use carbide tools with their shaper? I've been playing around for awhile with different types of carbide and tool shapes for both finishing and rough cut tools. I'm getting a great finish with a carbide shear tool, better than with a corresponding HSS shear tool.
On a rough cut type tool I get a finish that would be every bit as good if not better than a corresponding tool in HSS (at the same depth,feed,speed).
I've used c2,c5 , K21 grades of carbide so far and haven't found a clear preference yet.
I'm using both a South Bend 7 and an Atlas 7, mostly with cr1018 steel. Carbide seems to need lots of cutting fluid for a good finish.
What have others learned about carbide? This seems like a little discussed topic for shapers.
Pete
 
I'm not a heavy carbide user but i do like the brazed carbide tools for cast iron.

I also only have a hand shaper, errm. But it is very good at telling you exactly how sharp your tools are :)

Stuart
 
i hadn't even considered using a carbide tool , have you used the tools enough yet to see if chipping will be an issue on heavier cuts .
and in general what are you taking for a roughing and finishing cut as far as depth/feed /speed are concerned
 
Interesting.

I have often wondered about the same thing -- why no talk in the books about using carbide for shaper tools? I've got quite a few references about tool shapes and uses from various sources of the day, but none talk about anything other than high speed.

So I looked back into a copy of "Machine Shop Practice" by Moltrecht c. 1979. No mention of carbide in the shaper chapters, but in the section on planers, yes. Actually a fair description on nuances to be considered when using cemented carbide to prevent tip failure, etc. One thing that does jump right out at a person are the speeds they recommend: in many cases the fpm is in excess of three times the speed recommended for HSS on the same material! That's getting into some pretty smokin' speeds, maybe too quick to run on a shaper with a comparatively shorter stroke length?

I dunno, just musing on it. When I got my little machine the guy had a carbide cutter in the holder so I assume he was using it, but to what effect I didn't ask at the time. Here's a photo of one of the cutting tables from the Moltrecht book, remember these are for planers and not shapers, but the comparison of speeds is what I found interesting.

-frank

image.jpeg
 
When I surfaced the table on my shaper, I used a brazed carbide cutter. No idea about the grade but it worked great. Was worried wear in a HSS cuter would vary the cut over the width, the carbide stood up great, a dial indicator on the ram shows a flat table now.

Greg
 
So my finishing cuts are about .003 deep, with a feed of .006 and at the slowest rpm speed. This is on both the Atlas and the SB. The stroke is a full 5 1/2". The cut is an multi-interrupted cut. The cutting edge isn't chipping but it does need resharpening ( honing) sooner than a HHS tool would and I have to flood it with cutting fluid. I'm still toying with different roughing tools. Currently I'm using a brazed carbide BR in c2 grade, but I also like a TSA style brazed carbide (but these have a short shank that needs to have a extension welded to it).
The finish itself has a iridescent aspect to it especially on a BR tool at about .008 depth cut
 
wow , i look at the planer speeds at find it quite scary ... three times as fast as hss

i think i like petes speeds better ... slow lol

i have a few c2 grade brazed tools i dont use . i think im going to try one out tomarow .
 
i tried out a a cheapo c5 harbor freight tool on a piece of unknown scrap this afternoon .

i went whole hog and started out with a fairly heavy cut ... @ roughly 50 strokes a minute and a depth of cut of .050 and .010 feed it made very nice tightly curled chips and left a fair surface finish . actually a better surface finish then i have gotten with hss on a roughing cut .
after a few cuts with no chipped carbide i backed it off to try a finish cut .

@ .010 depth with a .004 feed i started to see the same iridescent pattern pete301 got . backing it off to .005 depth of cut and i most defiantly had the same pattern showing up in my work .
it feels smooth to the touch and kinda has a nice look about it .

but ... i think the pattern is chatter . once i switched off the hss thinking and treated the carbide like you would on a lathe .. ie , more speed , feed and depth of cut it the surface finish went right back to how it looks with hss .
at roughly 90 strokes a minute with the .010 doc and .008 feed i got a nice smooth flat surface that is without a doubt the best finish i have gotten so far , but as soon as i slow it down or try for lighter cuts the iridescence comes right back .

at first i was skeptical on it being chatter because it is very smooth to the touch ,... but what else could cause it ?
chatter or not , its something i hope i can replicate again in other materials because it is rather pleasing to the eye and would add a unique touch to any projects that you want to look pretty .
 
Usefull info there boys,thanks I've just come in from the workshop after cutting a couple of lengths of railway line up [the length the theives left me after clearing out all my molding boxes lathe chuck & other stuff] & I was toying with the idea of shaping the tops with carbide as I'm guessing it will be quite tough for hss so I'll give it a go now as I've only used hss before [it's a alba type 1 12" stroke] you either love or hate 'em, I love shapers.
 
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