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Cincinnati A Tool Holder

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Uglydog

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#1
I'm unwilling to pay the ebay prices for a Cincy "A Tool Holder".
Does anyone here have one?
I'm hoping I can get you to take some very precise measurements.
Enough measurements so that I can draw a print.
As soon as school is out this spring, I hope to to turn, and harden an "A Tool Holder" and nut.

Thank you,
Daryl
MN
 

Reeltor

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#2
I don't know what a Cinci "A tool holder" is, do you have any photos?
 

GK1918

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#4
I can draw up a chicken scratch of a series C holder If that will help (I machine my own) No need to harden I machined
these from alum stock for smaller end mills (with a set screw) its easy, Once the collet was machined (copied from a real
monoset) I put the drill in a rotary table & drilled and reamed the collet in the mill, instead of drilling on a lathe, mill is more
precise. quick question Daryl, why the need for series "A". ??? ( thought your mill
has 3CH system lilke mine)
sam
 
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Uglydog

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#5
Thank you GK1918!
It's the tapers that I'm the most concerned about. I can/will measure my own collets and compare them to the numbers that Hardinge publicly posts.
"I can draw up a chicken scratch of a series C holder If that will help (I machine my own)" The scratch will be very helpful in confirming or refuting what I draw on my little draftsmans board. I like to draw things up because it helps me think about set up and sequence.

Yep, I've got the 3CH Cincy monoset collets.

Now for the best question: "why the need for series "A". ???"

Several things:
1) I've got a friend who pours and paints fishing lures as job. He is a one man shop hundreds of thousands of hand poured, hand painted fishing lures each year, all different sizes. He customizes his aluminum molds and frequently needs a 1/8inch end mill to detail the molds. The A collet system does the 1/8". However, since I got the Van Norman 6 that problem is obviated.

2) Whenever possible I use a collet instead of my Drill chuck. While my Jacobs has to much run out for small center drills, my Albrect is solid. Regardless, with both I loose alot of clearance. While I have 1/4inch and 3/8inch, I haven't been able to find a 5/16inch C collet. And I've had the standard issue A collets selection on the shelf for a while. Additionally, the farther any of us extend from the spindle the greater the possibility of the introduction of error.

3) I want to see if I can do the whole thing on the lathe. All the internal and external tapers and internal and external threading. For many of you this is not a difficult task. However, I'm still very much a NOOB. And I need to prove to myself I can do it. I plan to turn a C Collet with a MT3 first, as I have a Wahlstrom Chuck I'd like to use.

4) I'm nuts! Ever since I opened Moores books on precision I've been fascinated with precision and accuracy on manual machines. Not using DRO or powerfeeds. How good can I make the machine and machine operator interface. Toag and bigearl67 have both attempted therapy by discussing the "80% solution" . Wherein the best solution is the one that works. And "good enough" works. Yes, I understand that unnecessarily taking a project to the exact spec is unnecessary and unprofitable. That getting within tolerance is good enough. However, I'm not in a production environment and I'm not getting paid for parts sold.

So while I likely really don't need an A Collet holder I want to discover if I can do turn it with all the tapers and threading exactly on spec. I'm hoping that I can get this psychotic disorder out of my head before I stumble on a vintage Jig Bore (with end measure locating). Yes, what I really dream about is a little Moore or Pratt Jig Bore with tooling. I'd even take a SIP. Regardless, she'd have to be Old Iron!

So at the risk of aiding and abetting deviant behavior if you are still willing/able to scratch some numbers and a sketch it'd be helpful.


Thank you,
Daryl
MN
 

GK1918

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#6
Hang on Daryl, I bet my life you can do it. first the psychotic disorder "click ya brain delete button click trash bin" Enter the world
of old school. In my mind problem solving is always under my nose without a mental meltdown of dreaded math which I hate. I have
machined these with just a few basics. First a known 3C collet , an expanding mandrel, a lathe, and a piece of round stock. I raked
all angles with a dial ind. on the compound zeroed out and wrote that down. Measured all the lengths, wrote that down. Turned the stock
to the largest diameter of the 'real' collet, then worked on the tapers (compound rest taper turning method)..I chose not to center drill
on the lathe because of the usual run-outs all lathes have> chucks centers< blah blah. Rotary table "zeroed" drill in chuck on RT
checked again for zero, with the collet blank in the mill and drill away. My mind told my the part is now machine matched. All made
from alum stock because logic says small delicate end mills don't need over kill collets. Should have said the mandrel in the real
collet- between centers in lathe was only to come up with the tapers. Then stock placed in any ole chuck don;t matter, when turned
it will get round again, just don't take it out till done. So after said and done the collet was reamed so perfectly & with a end mill
in this new collet; I get a nice vacuum suck pop. drill and tap for a set screw done. Meanwhile I'll look for my notes on this
because there is an order of operations so ya dont get painted in a corner..Bottom line, about a half hour, ebay bucks, and the
wait for the brown truck mostly time saved for cheap. I suggest once you machine the first blank, do a few more.....
I'll get back sam
 

Karl_T

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#7
I had skipped over this thread, sorry.

I own a monoset and can loan you a holder. I live about 40 miles west of you.
email me karltownsend<AT>embarqmail<DOT>com

Karl
 

Uglydog

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#8
I had skipped over this thread, sorry.

I own a monoset and can loan you a holder. I live about 40 miles west of you.
email me karltownsend<AT>embarqmail<DOT>com

Karl
Thanks I'll send you a PM.

Daryl
MN
 

Uglydog

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#9
GK1918,
I sincerely appreciate your encouragement! And look forward to seeing a copy of your notes.

Daryl
MN
 

GK1918

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#10
Hang on I havent found my notes - but I will sam
 

Uglydog

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#11
Thanks for the update!
I hope to actually get started on this in about 3weeks.

Daryl
MN
 

GK1918

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#12
3 weeks ok, now May & I'm still waiting for the ice to melt. I'll get back...

sam

looks like (US new england) gonna be north pole, and north pole, gonna be florida
 

Uglydog

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#13
GK1918
All is well.
Based on your post I hope all is well with you.

Daryl
MN
 
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