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Cincinnati Lathe Identification And Preparation

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chubbyjp77

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#1
image.jpeg I just purchased a "new" lathe and could use a bit of help with it. I'm not sure of its model and I'm trying to acquire an operator/service manual without dropping a ton of coin. It fits my bill for vintage but if it's not appropriately place let me know and I'll start a different thread or the mods can move this one.

Anyway it's a Cincinnati Lathe and Tool machine that's pre tray top model. I could find no numbers on it yet but it could use a good cleaning as it sat idle for several years. I plan to put it back into service and could use help and advice on the ID and service of the old beast. I did purchase a Cincinnati brochure off eBay but it doesn't really identify anything. I have some oil on the way so I can change that before it sees power but I'll take any advice I can get at this point. Thanks in advance for any and all help.
 
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Bob Korves

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#2
Sorry I am not of any help with your questions, just wanted to say that looks like a nice old lathe...
 

Martin W

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#3
Nice Lathe, stout and well made
Looks like its just begging to be put into service.
Cheers
Martin
 

FOMOGO

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#4
Nice looking machine. Maybe it's the pic, but it seems really close to ground. Could weld up a pan out of some 3/16" plate and flat stock, and incorporate some risers into both ends to get it to a comfortable working height. People were generally shorter when that one was produced. I'm betting you'll really enjoy operating the old girl. Mike
 

dlane

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#5
Swing ? It just looks short
 
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#6
Looks much heavier and beefier than the it's predecessor, the try top lathe.
 

chubbyjp77

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image.jpeg It's not as low as it looks in the picture. I'm 6'1" and it is at a pretty comfortable height. It could be a bit taller for me but it's tolerable. I did get a chance to look it over and found the number 3053 stamped into the top of the bed at the tail stock end. I still have no idea of the year but the patent date on the taper attachment says 1929. I'm gonna pull the top off the headstock, inspect everything, and change the oil if everything is looking good. I'll get the apron and the QC gear box while I'm at it. Needs a good cleaning and some paint and it'll look like new. Here's a few pictures. I love the fact that they used an etched tag instead of stickers on everything.
 

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chubbyjp77

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#8
I wasn't ignoring you. Swing on it is 16". It's 48" between centers with the tailstock flush. Lathes not at my house and I finally remembered to measure it. Last time I was at the shop I pulled the smoked motor off the mill.
I threw power to it quick and she runs, although backwards. And I was doing really good guessing the wiring on 3 phase motors lately. At least it's easy to switch the wires on.
 

MrFixIt

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#9
Nice looking lathe there!!
With three phase just swap any two of the feed wires and it'll reverse direction.
 

chubbyjp77

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#10
I'll end up switching L1 and L2 around but I didn't permanently wire the machine yet. It's ran off a 30 hp rotary phase converter and I always try to keep the manufactured led on the right (& marked with orange tape too). That helps keep me from wiring a transformer or the like to it. I'm going to see if I can get a 30 amp disconnect switch from work along with a decent piece of 10/4 SOOW. I'd like to drop the line from the ceiling but it's not very practical. I need to hang a light or two over the new equipment also. I didn't get to work at it like I wanted to but I guess it's not going anywhere.

I did get to tear into my Bridgeport motor though. It's spent, not that I'm surprised. It was ran off a static converter and two of the phases are done. That smell of failure never leaves the motor until it's rebuilt. Anyone know a good motor shop in central PA? I'm getting a quote on a rebuild from Motor Tech but it'll be expensive I'm betting. Did find a new stator for under $400 and may just go that route.
 

george wilson

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#11
The info plate shows a very slow top speed.

I have seen old South Bend lathes that had had their 1725 RPM motors replaced with 3450 RPM motors to give better top speeds. In your case,even doing that would not give a particularly high top speed. And,you need to look at the bearings in the spindle. Yours are likely plain bearings rather than ball or roller bearings. Make sure the bearings can stand doubling the top speed.

There is nothing wrong with having plain bearings,except for the limitations on top speed. Some of the finest lathes ever made had plain bearings. Even Dean,Smith and Grace lathes. They just take a longer time to accomplish a job.

As for the 16 RPM lowest speed,I wish my 16" lathe had THAT!. Many modern made lathes have way too high a low speed. Mine was 60 RPM. Try turning a large object at that speed! My gap swings 24",but,unless you're turning aluminum or brass,forget it. I made a special pulley for my lathe to cut the lowest speed in half to 30 RPM. It cuts ALL the speeds in half. But,30 RPM is still way too fast for trying to do really large work in the gap. I have a high speed Hardinge HLVH that I use for small parts,which is most of what I do anyway. It will do 3000 RPM,with a lowest speed of 125,which,again,is too high for larger face plate work in steel or cast iron. The Hardinge is really a collet lathe. It excels in that work.

All that said,you have a heck of a VERY powerful lathe there. Definitely a REAL LATHE,and not a toy made in Asia!!! Congrats!! I'd love to add it to my own shop.
 

chubbyjp77

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#12
The little sales brochure I bought on eBay matches my lathe pretty close. It looks like it was for a slightly newer model because the top is a bit flatter but it's not a tray top yet. Spindle rpm is 16-392. It'll only cut standard threads but that's all I plan on working with. It's slow but it beats my last lathe (the one I don't have). For the $500 I paid for it I'm pretty happy especially since it has the taper attachment and steady rest. I plan on tearing the top off and inspecting everything when I change the oil. Any recommendations for the lubricant for the open gears on the end of it.

I'm looking to run the wiring and such then tear into things. Definitely need to hang a light over the top of it since pole buildings aren't well lit. Thanks for all the admiration and input so far.
 
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#13
Along with what George said, another trick you can do is soup it up by putting a larger pulley on the motor, provided there's room to do so. May have to replace a couple of the belts with longer one's to replace the existing belts. Be nice to get the highest speed up to around 600 RPM if you can. Again, don't push it up too much at once.
 

chubbyjp77

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#14
Unfortunately without a complete change over the pulley change isn't much of an option. The motors power is transferred to the headstock gears by a 1-1/2" wide toothed chain. If wont ever slip if it gets crashed so definitely need to be careful.
 

chubbyjp77

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#15
Well I have the lathe wired and running the right direction now. Going to level up the old girl in the near future and inspect the gears and change to oils. I ran it for a few minutes to try to figure everything out on the carriage with no avail. The half nuts I understand along with the feed direction/neutral lever but I can't seem to get the hand wheels to engage the x or y feed. Anyone know how they are supposed to work? They spin when the shaft is engaged but they don't seem to move in and out. I figure the clutches are seized but would like some input on their operation so I better know how to address the issue.
 
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#16
On your apron, there is a three position lever to the bottom right. That lever needs to be either up or fully down, not in the middle. You place the lever in the middle position when you want to use the half nuts only. Once you have done that, the two knobs to the left and up, are for engaging the feed by twisting them to the right or clockwise to gently tighten. Don't tighten too tight, doing so, may lock up the cone clutch and not be able to disengage. Also make sure the feed rod coming from the QCGB is rotating.
If this is not working for feeding, then a teardown of the apron is next. The double beveled gear set in the apron is worn out. The cone clutches could be bottom out from wear and tear not allowing the clutches to engage. usually if this is happening, one of the two clutches should be grabbing and feeding.
 

chubbyjp77

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Thanks Ken. Good info. I didn't know if the knob was threaded or if it pulled in and out to engage the clutch. Things are probably tight from sitting for so long. I had the lever figured out and the 1/2 nuts to but couldn't get anything to happen with the feed. Hope the clutches aren't shot because I still didn't cast aluminum let alone cast iron with my foundry furnace yet. I'd have to finish it first for that anyway.

The shaft spins when engaged. There is a knob by the QCGB to select neutral, lead screw, or shaft. Pulling and turning decides where the power is transferred to. I wish I could find info on the lathe as easy as I can for the new Bridgeport. And of course like everything I buy it needs some work, namely the motor.
 

chubbyjp77

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#18
Got the clutches loose. Beat on the knobs with a block of wood and things started coming loose. The cross feed was pretty stubborn but I eventually came free. I guess I'm gonna tear it down and paint it while I'm at it.
 

chubbyjp77

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#19
image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
Finally got some time to work at things. I tore the carriage and tailstock of the bed for starters so I could inspect and clean the ways easily. A little stoning at a few spots and some cleaning should get it back to decent.

I then tore of the guards covering the external gears and chain drive and looked over the gears. So far not a single broken tooth. The guard covering the chain was starting to crack at the top where it was welded so I'll fix that while it's apart. Of course there's about 60 years of old grease and filth inside the guards so I'll pressure wash them while they're off.

Finally I tore up he headstock cover and chuck off for inspection. The seal behind the chuck looked like it was weeping w bit so I pulled the seal so I could get dimensions and order a new one. I looked into the seals old home and I found a set of Timken roller bearings. Good deal.
A disassembly of the carriage and apron are soon to follow.
 
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#20
Those big old wide tooth gears and clutch teeth in that headstock, something else is going to get tore up first! They just don't build the like that anymore!
If you haven't dated the lathe yet, the date on the taper attachment is pretty close to its birthday. Send more pictures as you go thru the lathe restoration.
Ken
 

brino

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#21
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chubbyjp77

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#22
Will do. I'm glad you guys are enjoying it. Toward the end of the week the wife and kids are going on vacation so I should be able to get more shop time in then. Looking for paint for it right now so I can get that on order.

I did get to clean up the guards a bit today. 2 cans of oven cleaner to get the grease off with the use of a pressure washer. The chain guard needs welded and I hope to get that done tomorrow.

Thanks again for the interest, advice, & encouragement.
 

chubbyjp77

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#23
Well since I was last just going to change the oil in the headstock, plans changed a bit. I needed to weld the chain guard so I removed it to do so. Upon removal I noticed 2 broken tabs on the mating piece so I might as well fix that too. To get that piece off I had to pull the clutch, no problem. Got that all taken care of so back to the oil change in the headstock. I'm sure everyone here knows what kind of mess is left behind from older generation oils. Decides I better hose that out with brake cleaner. Started hosing it out and realized how much sludge there was. I decided to pull a shaft so I could wipe things out good. It was the only way my hand would fit. Hand still wouldn't fit to my liking and all the crap in the headstock was annoying me so I'll pull the second one. There was only one shaft left and I wanted to replace both seals so I figured I went this far what's one more. I took that out and removed the gears on the end to do so. While I was at it I figured I might as well pull the castings of the base and clean them in the caustic tank at work since that would be easy. Once all the castings were removed I saw piles of swarf in the base. Pulled the motor to clean out that. Any way you get the idea. I'm down to a bear bed that's gonna get pressure washed and prepped for paint and a headstock casting that's sitting on wood blocks on the floor.
 

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brino

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#24
Yup, sometimes it's like pulling one small thread on a sweater and unwinding the entire thing.

Rest assured you will:
  1. know the job was done right and that no other gremlins lurk within just waiting for power-up
  2. know that lathe inside and out
In the long run you'll have a machine that should run for many years with only minor cleaning and maintenance(oil changes).

What kind/colour of paint are you using?

Thanks for the update and pictures!
-brino
 

chubbyjp77

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#25
I was looking at using Valspar Industrial alkyd enamel in dark gray. It could end up being a PPG paint if my paint tech figures something out. Lots of cleaning before it sees paint.
 

chubbyjp77

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#26
I think it's offical, the wife hates my new machines, LOL. I have everything but the carriage and QCGB torn apart. I'm running out of room to lay parts out neatly so I'll get to them once the headstock and bed are painted and reassembled. Base is now separated from the bed and received a good bath with purple power so it wouldn't be so oily when I go to clean it up for paint. No new photos but I'm going to throw together a parts list for the bearings, races, & seals. Since I can't find info on this thing maybe it'll help someone else out. Drive plates and chuck plates look like they'll be machined in house at this rate. Hopefully my foundry furnace will be up for iron casting.
 

brino

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#27
I'm running out of room to lay parts out neatly
Don't forget, there is always the kitchen table and counter-tops!
That should distract your wife from hating "the machines".;)

Please do post what you learn about the headstock parts. Someone else will need it!

-brino
 

chubbyjp77

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#28
There are a few things I have learned not to do. One of the is put parts on the kitchen counter. It hinders the making of supper (which I'm fond of eating) and I'll stay out of the kitchen if you stay out of my shop. A muzzleloader barrel drying in the oven is pushing my luck. The fact that I caught moms oven on fire heating a ring gear for a differential doesn't help any either. That's a long story for another time.
 

chubbyjp77

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#29
Primer showed up today and the paint is backordered. I think MSC is shipping the paint out of GA today so it'll be here before I'm ready for it. Primer is Valspar Industial Anti-Rust in Gray. Paint is Valspar Industrial Enamel in Dark Gray. My paint tech couldn't help me out on this one and I wasn't about to pay $350 for an Epoxy paint. We'll see how it holds up, hope this isn't a case of buyers remorse.
 

chubbyjp77

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#30
image.jpeg image.jpeg Here's a few of the cleaned parts about ready for paint. Soaked in the caustic tank and a quick sandblasting. Cleaned up without much labor involved.
 
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