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Cleaning 80 year old sump.

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agfrvf

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#1
Any tips on cleaning out 80y/o van norman 2SU sump. I don't think it was ever cleaned. So far I have used bleach, industrial purple, baking soda, a garden hose, hot water, manually scraping out the ****, filling and draining. All that and it still wreaks. Any sage advice?
 

agfrvf

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G 0 0 k is censored?
 
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Your probably dealing with a tary gooey substance that will take many tries at removing. Got a match?

Try a scraping at it with a 1" wide scraper to remove what you can. Soak the rest with mineral spirits, the good stuff, not the watered down stuff. May even try MEK at last resorts. Lots of Bounty paper towels, too.
 

Ray C

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#4
Acetone.
 

whitmore

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#5
Any tips on cleaning out 80y/o van norman 2SU sump. I don't think it was ever cleaned.
Everyone has their favorites; I like wood wedges for scraping (they're disposable), and semiliquid soap
made with lye from my stale kitchen oils... and if you have overalls, a scrub brush (the spatter will
mean the overalls need prompt cleaning).

For finishing up, the citrus paint stripper products at least don't smell bad. And, a pressure washer
beats a garden hose.
 

markba633csi

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#6
Lye ( or oven cleaner, sodium hydroxide) is good for dissolving fats and greases. Be careful tho it's strong. Keep some water handy in case a droplet gets in your eye and wear protection.
Mark S.
 

Old junk

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#7
I agree on the oven cleaner been using it on engines for years
 

agfrvf

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#8
Industrial purple is NaOH
 

Superburban

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#9
The sump is in the base of the machine, not much access to get in there and scrape. My VN, was not only full of gunk, but also lots of rusted chips. I gave up trying, and decided I won't use the sump. VN No. 2 light, universal table.jpg
 

agfrvf

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#10
I plan on using an external sump that opens easy (5 gal bucket with a bilge pump should do). However the problem is it wreaks i may try going in through the knee screw hole and the pump.
 

woodchucker

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#11
If you can try a high pressure washer to loosen the stuff up. I assume you can get a wand in and move it around. Maybe even bend it at 45 (buy a new one for use later) so you can get to other areas.
As far as the stench. Once you clean it up, stick some charcoal in the sump. wrap each piece in wire so you can pull it out later. Leave it in for a few weeks once you dry the interior. Charcoal is a filter, it may soak up the smell.
 

Dredb

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#12
I've cleaned a few sumps, the worst one was a Bridgeport clone, the column was half full of chips, steel, alloy, plastic and some oil too. I must have been the first person ever to look inside. It's worth having a look in Bridgeport sumps, tooling gets dropped in there and the oil keeps it in good condition. It's a good idea to wear gloves for this job, the chips are sharp and there are probably bugs that live in the oil. I wash out with kerosene or diesel fuel, throw in some cat litter, shovel and brush out the soggy mess, spray with oven cleaner and then wash out with hot water.
 

Silverbullet

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#13
You may need to just dig it out with a trowel or scraper , if you get it out bleach will help kill the smell. But put some urinal cakes the blue tablet type that will help deoderise and keep the stink out. I do know from cleaning sumps on turret lathes. I can still remember and it's been forty years ago. Eyukk
 

middle.road

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#14
SuperClean - non-diluted might do it. I use it on all sorts of gunked up stuff.
1517434752695.png
 

projectnut

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#15
If you can try a high pressure washer to loosen the stuff up. I assume you can get a wand in and move it around. Maybe even bend it at 45 (buy a new one for use later) so you can get to other areas.
As far as the stench. Once you clean it up, stick some charcoal in the sump. wrap each piece in wire so you can pull it out later. Leave it in for a few weeks once you dry the interior. Charcoal is a filter, it may soak up the smell.
I would agree with using a pressure washer and hot water. I had the same problem with Racine power hacksaw a few years back. I tried every industrial and household cleaner in the book. The stuff was like tar laced sandpaper. just rubbing your hand across it would give you road rash. Some really nasty stuff. I was going to give up on it, but decided as one last ditch effort to load it into the trailer and take it to the DIY car wash.

I was shocked at the job it did. The combination of hot water, pressure at about 900 psi and soap was just the ticket. By the time I was done the metal looked like brand new (minus 60 years of paint). If you decide to try it wear old clothes that can be disposed of, and park your tow vehicle so that the door on the car wash can be lowered between the back of the vehicle and the front of the trailer. It's a nasty messy job.

I'm glad I took it to the car wash rather than using my own pressure washer in the drive. I don't think I could ever get the crud off the drive.. At the car wash it was just a matter of opening the door after the machine was clean and spending a couple extra bucks to wash everything down the drain.
 

agfrvf

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#16
What I have been doing so far is making a birm of kitty litter to make a large basin on the garage floor which is epoxy and cleans up fine. It seems to work. I think I'll try a pressure washer and a toilet wand on a stick.
 

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#17
Now I am following this thread! I intend to use the internal sump on my VN no24 - though is was disconnected in a past life. Even with white paint, the bowels are as uninviting & cramped as a submarine's nethers. I have both access panels off - not too bad until one realizes there is a cavity with even less access down under that also reaches under the foot of the knee (call it the oilpan that cannot be dropped from under the engine - just for comparison's sake). I am awaiting a used sump/motor to arrive -if for no other reason than to gauge how heavy the assembly is & to practice disassembly / cleaning techniques. With my bad back, the thought of raising the stock unit out through such small portals - well. gonna require some serious planning. I do have a few pics of this area of mine. I would really like to see pics of agfrvt's mill!!!! 01 20170415.jpg 02 20170415.jpg 01 20170415.jpg 02 20170415.jpg 02 20170808.jpg 03 20170808.jpg
 

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agfrvf

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#19
The knee probably weighs as much as a Bridgeport. Wacking the able at full extension I could not get impact tremors in the fluid sitting in the table basin. I think it will do good work.
 

agfrvf

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#20
I think I will use a HDPE tub and marine sump pump so I never have to do this again. I figure I would manually skim any oil or gunk/chips quickly and easily to prevent my coolant from spoiling.
 

woodchucker

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#21
The knee probably weighs as much as a Bridgeport. Wacking the able at full extension I could not get impact tremors in the fluid sitting in the table basin. I think it will do good work.
Yea, she's a beast. She needs a bath, I'll bet you need to replace all the wicks, oil tubes, I'm betting they are all gunked up.
But once you clean it up, it'll do good heavy work.
 

brino

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#22
Beautiful old machine!
-brino
 

agfrvf

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#23
Good point woodchucker. Anythoughts on where to get wicks and swipers. Alas Van Norman is no more.
 

BROCKWOOD

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#25
Way swipers should be capable of receiving the correct width felt from McMaster Carr - at least as presented recently by Abom79 & Fenner on other machines. Abomb also covered the replacement of wicks on a shaper he is currently working on. My mill is newer than but not too different from agfrvf's. No mention of wicks in my parts drawings. I will definitely have to check on this. I have oil leak repair opportunities to deal with anyway.
 

woodchucker

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#26
Way swipers should be capable of receiving the correct width felt from McMaster Carr - a
I picked up sheets from McMaster and cut my own for my clausing. I made some templates from plastic folder covers. Then proceeded to cut them out. Piece of cake.
 
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