Coaxial Centering Indicator-are they to be had?

jjtgrinder

jjtgrinder

JJTGRINDER
H-M Supporter Gold Member
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I am considering the purchase of a coaxial centering ind for the shop. Enco has the SPI model on sale. What do you more experienced guys think about these? Also I would like to hear your experience using the Enco dial test indicators(606-4712). I know a "interapid" would be great but if I drop it or something it's damaged. Enco has this stuff on sale now.
Thanks for your help - the grinder.
 
The co-ax indicators are an expensive extravagance that you don't really need. I own one of the original Blake co-ax indicators and I barely use it, certainly not enough to justify what I paid for it. It's quicker to just use the edge finder or a dial test indicator to center on a hole or shaft. Save yourself some cash and buy one of the Indicol universal indicator holders instead. I can clamp one of those to the spindle of my mill and find the center of a hole with a DTE in less time than it takes to get a co-ax indicator out of the box. They also take a lot of room in Z so to use them always involves a lot of cranking the table of the mill up and down. They are very cool, just not very practical.

Tom
 
I have been thinking about it, but the Steven's has been taking all of my time. :headscratch:

Tom
 
TLGriff said:
The co-ax indicators are an expensive extravagance that you don't really need. I own one of the original Blake co-ax indicators and I barely use it, certainly not enough to justify what I paid for it. It's quicker to just use the edge finder or a dial test indicator to center on a hole or shaft. Save yourself some cash and buy one of the Indicol universal indicator holders instead. I can clamp one of those to the spindle of my mill and find the center of a hole with a DTE in less time than it takes to get a co-ax indicator out of the box. They also take a lot of room in Z so to use them always involves a lot of cranking the table of the mill up and down. They are very cool, just not very practical.

Tom
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Tom and all,

Thank You for the help. This is very good information.

I would like to know your thoughts on the Enco indicator i am considering.

The Grinder
 
Hi Grinder

I guess it depends on the end user, as to how much it will get used. I have two Coaxe indicaters. I have the Blake that I bought yrs ago, and paid way too much for. Its a great tool, and I do use mine enough that I bought a import clone for general use around the the shop. The clone was only about 60 bucks. I can say the Blake, and the Import are with in .0005 of each other. So as long as your paying the long dollar, the import would be a way to start, and if you felt you used it enough, and wanted better quality then move up to a better brand. Personally I like the Coaxe, but thats just me.

The DTI, is again a great tool, and I have a Interapid, and 3 imports. The imports at the price, are cheap enough that if you do drop it, just drop it a second time, straight in the trash can ;) at 30 bucks, they are not worth worrying about. So I would probably pick up the imports, and get a feel for what you like. Then if you dont use them much, sell them, or move up to better quality later.

Maybe I use mine more because the mill has power feeds on all axis, and cranking the knee up and down is not a issue on my machine.
 
jjtgrinder said:
Tom and all,

Thank You for the help. This is very good information.

I would like to know your thoughts on the Enco indicator i am considering.

The Grinder
Click to expand...

I've gone through a lot of dial test indicators over the years and am pretty much down to one, an Interapid. Yes, they are expensive and probably hard to justify for a hobby machinist, but they are tough. I've dropped mine many times, banged it against parts with the power feed, done pretty much every abuse possible short of launching it accross the room (although that has been the demise of at least one other :cool:) and it just keeps working. I'm not a full time machinist any more, so it doesn't get as much use/abuse as it used to, but I have used this same indicator for many years when I was. I'm pretty sure I bought in the late 80's.

I can't speak for the current Enco indicators, but I would seriously doubt they are very shock proof like the better quality indicators (Interapid, Starrett, Brown and Sharpe, etc.). Some corners have to be cut to sell them for such low prices.

Tom
 
TLGriff said:
I've gone through a lot of dial test indicators over the years and am pretty much down to one, an Interapid. Yes, they are expensive and probably hard to justify for a hobby machinist, but they are tough. I've dropped mine many times, banged it against parts with the power feed, done pretty much every abuse possible short of launching it accross the room (although that has been the demise of at least one other :cool:) and it just keeps working. I'm not a full time machinist any more, so it doesn't get as much use/abuse as it used to, but I have used this same indicator for many years when I was. I'm pretty sure I bought in the late 80's.

I can't speak for the current Enco indicators, but I would seriously doubt they are very shock proof like the better quality indicators (Interapid, Starrett, Brown and Sharpe, etc.). Some corners have to be cut to sell them for such low prices.

Tom
Click to expand...

My take on the coaxial indicators is that they are a nice to have item, but not necessary. But, I defy anyone to get centered within a few thou faster with a DTI than a coax (notice I qualified my fast opinion with "a few thou")... But, on the other hand the DTI is far more sensitive and accurate and doesn't require much, if any, Z axis change or quill retraction after use. However, it's nowhere near as quick and convenient. If I want fast, I use the coax, if I want accurate I use the DTI.

I own a coax, and use it from time to time. Its main use, for me, is to quickly reset my lathe tailstock after a taper cut. It's not a replacement for a test bar, but gets me very close.

All in all, if you have the cash, go for it. But I'm with Tom so far as if you don't yet have a good DTI, get one first. A Compac, B&S Bestest, Interapid, Tesa/Etalon, Mitutoyo or even a B&S Last Word or a Fowler (not the import X versions) are more accurate and reliable than the el cheapos. I used to have an Interapid which met with an unfortunate accident and now have a Compac. It's been bulletproof and has outlasted a half a dozen import cheapos - it's worth every penny. The Interapid was nice because it had an integral spindle, but had to be set at a weird probe angle to be accurate for measurements. The Bestest is automatically reversing which is a feature I simply don't see any value in... The Last Word requires you to flip a switch to reverse direction - annoying.

A good DTI is worth its weight in gold. A good dial caliper and a good DTI should, in general and in my opinion, be in your toolbox before a coax.

By the way, a coax indicator isn't hard to make yourself... I saw an article on it somewhere...

John
 
I agree with the buy cheap, upgrade later theory.
Mine cost $48 shipped from ebay. Looks decent quality, nice wooden case, have not used it yet, a year later.
 
Well,I guess I am the only one here that uses his BLAKE co-ax,and wouldn't want to be without it. Contrary to the other comments, I have heard that imports are not accurate,and should be avoided. Several machinists on the Practical Machinist's Forum have said to avoid them. If it is like other Asian imports,I'd nearly guarantee that whether or not you get a decently accurate one is going to be a matter of pot luck because Asian quality control is IFFY at best. I NEVER believe the inspection sheets that come with their machines. I just set up my machines and adjust them myself. I have been lucky to get Asian machines that were not full of sand,and not accurate. My friend who works at NASA,running the machine shop,got a 14" Jet whose apron was FULL of chips. He had to send it back. Not an easy job! My first 10" Jet was o.k.. That was in 1975.

I find my Blake indispensable for centering up holes within .0001". One special use I have for mine is I have a 3/4" arbor table saw,and can only buy 5/8" hole saw blades. I keep a small boring head with a carbide bar set for this job. The co-ax makes it so much easier for me to get the saw blade perfectly centered. I've also enlarged saw blades for others. It depends upon what you are doing. I also have the center punch locator. It is easy to very accurately align holes that must be bored accurately in location.

I have had neck surgery(fused 2 bones) and can't twist my neck around too much to see a rotating indicator,so the co-ax is a HUGE convenience. I HAVE seen the Blake used in professional shops,too.

I'll admit I did not pay full retail for mine. I got it new for $100.00 in a used tool place. I like mine so much that I picked up one for my shop at work,and another for my co worker and friend,Jon. If I lost mine,I would pay full price for another one. I just can't twist my neck around trying to read ordinary indicators.

P.S.: Last word indicators are cute,but they aren't NEARLY as good as a decent indicator of more recent design. They are just not nearly as sensitive,and their probes do not move with as light a pressure as a good one. An old design,I guess. Usually I like old,but these aren't the greatest any more.(Maybe they never were). I have 2 which I bought decades ago when I didn't know any better.
 
I think that Asian inspection sheets are just tossed into the package!! Really,I do.
 
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