Collets 5c vs. ER vs. MT3 vs. Drill Chuck etc ??

[ttabbal]

Don't want to hijack this thread, but ttabbal, how do you like the quality of the Shars parts? I've been thinking about the same setup
for mine.

I've been very happy with the chuck and adapter. You do need to machine the adapter a bit, but it's just to open some space to give you room to adjust and true it up to match your spindle. There were some chips in the threads for the clamping nut, but nothing major. The taper is well machined and accurate, and the threads were easy to clean. I get under 5 tenths runout, and and probably do better now that I have a 1 tenths DTI. Setting it up is just like dialing in a part in a 4 jaw.

Don't sweat the other collet uses, blocks are available for ER, and I bet spindexers and such are available. Even if not, you can hold a collet block in a chuck on a spindexer. Nothing against 5C or other types. I chose ER40 as I like the clamping range and had some good reviews from users here. I spent a little more on Techniks collets as I figured I might use them for tool holding in a future mill and wanted a known good brand that was still reasonably priced. The cheaper ones on ebay and such have been reviewed on various youtube channels and they have been pretty bad. The only cheaper ones I hear good things about are from TPAC Tools.

 

[pacifica]

I like the 5c as a system -lathe to spin index (mill usage).
I use dimensioned rod so can get by with a dozen collets.
Good quality(hardinge, royal, etc) collets have a range of +- .007 and dont become sprung.
Also very fast and accurate.Lots of availability.

 

[Bob Korves]

On a lathe, if you are using a 5C collets for making parts from standard imperial sizes of round, square, and hex stock, and for possibly also holding imperial sized tooling shanks, they will work fine. However, they will not hold partially machined work that is not to standard sizes, within a few thou. Collet blocks and spindexers use them. They will not work on your mill at all.

ER collets will hold sizes within a 1 mm (.040") range, though they are most accurate and hold work best at the nominal size that just slips into the collet. Squishing down ER collets too much works, but damages the collets, and does not hold as well. ER collets will work on both your lathe and your mill (with separate adapters), and in ER collet blocks.

For use on a lathe, I would not even consider MT collets or any other type that does not let the stock go through the spindle bore. Having a through spindle setup makes use of the stock more efficient with much less waste, and also speeds up the work flow on repetitive parts.

Like most choices in machining, it depends on what you will be making well down the road, which is not always easy to know in advance.

 

[Tozguy]

Of course, the idea being that I find what works best for a general purpose home shop with the least amount of investment and clutter.

For my 12x36 lathe, I opted for an ER32 collet chuck with a D1-4 mount in order to hold long work through the spindle. But holding a ER collet chuck in a four jaw always seemed like a good idea too.

Any work larger than 1/2'' diameter goes in the 4 jaw independent chuck. I picked up a few MT3 collets and R8 collets just to try when the work is short enough but most collet work is done with the ER set.

 

[Aaron_W]

I recently went through the same thing due to wanting some collet blocks.

I was somewhat surprised at the actual size of 5C collets. Obviously a collet that can hold 1" stock is going to have to be fairly large, but it just hadn't registered to me until I saw them in person. Regardless of size material held the individual collets are probably 1-1/4 x 4" or not much smaller than my ER32 chuck, and considerably larger than the individual collets for it.

Compare that to ER collets where you can buy ER8 to ER50 collets. You could get a few, maybe ER20 for the small sizes, ER32 in the middle and ER40 or 50 for the larger sizes. Of course additional collet chucks needed, but there is no need to buy complete sets for each just those larger than the size below. Doing this the collets are more closely scaled to the work.


With a 9x19 lathe you don't have a lot more room than me, and you won't be able to take full advantage of the larger pass through of the 5C collets.

5C collets do have some advantages and I'm still thinking about getting a set in the future, but I don't think the smaller lathes really take advantage of them.


There are ER to 5C adaptors allowing you to use ER collets in accessories made for 5C collets. I was also able to find ER32 collet blocks which is what I was really after.

 

[stioc]

I guess I should mention that I hope to buy a bigger lathe (12x or may be even a 13x) a few years down the road and would prefer not to reinvest in the tooling as much as I can help it. Having said that I'm starting to sway a bit more towards the ER40s now. Are the square and hex collet blocks readily available for the ER40?

 

[mikey]

I have 5C, ER chuck/collets and MT collets for the lathe and most are duplicated for the mill. Got 5C and ER-40 collet blocks, too. I like and use them all when appropriate. However, I know for a fact that you can easily get by with just a 3 jaw and independent 4 jaw chuck and not lose sleep over it for lathe work.

The reality is that a properly functioning 3 jaw is fine for almost any first operation work and a 4 jaw independent is fine for first or second operation work. Collet chucks are useful when you need to hold a threaded or finely finished part for a second operation. Collet chucks are also good when your reason for buying it is because you want what the cool guys have. Just realize that most hobby guys can get along just fine without them for most lathe work.

On the other hand, sometimes stuff like collet chucks weighs on the mind. You overlook the fact that you can easily live without it but you want it all the same. In that case, I would go for an ER-40 set up, for all the reasons that the other guys have given you.

 

[ttabbal]

Holding threaded or otherwise machined stuff without worrying about messing it up is really nice. You can avoid the need 90% of the time or more if you plan order of operations properly though. I also want to do some work with gravers later, which is much safer with a collet system. I had originally meant to also use them to hold end mills for a lathe attachment, then I went and bought a Bridgeport, so that's less of an issue now..

So while I likely don't NEED them, I do find them useful enough that any given project that will fit tends to live in them.

 

[stioc]

Mikey, you're spot on! the whole collet thing has been weighing on my mind and may be I don't need them as much as I think I do. In my mind I think that I'll be turning nominal dia bar stock and I can get away without needing to indicate them if I use the collets but I'm often working with much bigger diameters that collets can hold...if I don't count the bolts and stuff. I also look at my spindexer that I've never used because I don't know how to mount stuff to it other than using 5c collets so I get tempted but then I come full circle to 'I don't really need them, I just want them' lol

 

[P. Waller]

You do not appear to understand why collet systems were developed.

First came simple work holding, as technology progressed scroll chucks were employed and there was a vast improvement in the number of parts an operator could make in a given day. One may imagine the glee of the first company that used them, "they may clamp and unclamp the parts with the turn of one key and now make 50 parts per day instead of five".

The next improvement was collet systems, place part in collet and pull the lever and the part is clamped without the need of screwing around with a scroll chuck key, "they are now making 300 parts per day". The material manufacturers then had to produce stock with accurate enough diameters and finishes to work well in these machines, also collets allow for automatic bar feeding.

I fail to see why a hobbyist would invest in a collet system to make, as you say, one part at a time. I do fully understand the quest for ultimate accuracy that many desire, however if only producing several parts without a time constraint an adjustable chuck will do everything that you require and more. It is entirely possible that the people that recommend using only a collet chuck believe that this is the only way because that is what manufacturers use.